Did you go to a grammar school?

[TORONTONY 10]

Certainly Woodhouse Grammar School stopped the fee paying well beore 1940

 

3 of my old aunts (grandmothers sisters) went there in the early 1900's when it was fee paying but by the time 4 uncles/aunts from the next generation went there in 1930's it was a free Grammar School.

 

I went to Swallownest School but then passed my 11+ in 1951 starting at WGS in September 1951 and leaving in 1958

 

Education was good and dicipline very firm.

 

At 76 years old I am still in contact with many former friends there and virtually all have done very well indeed

 

As for me, I moved my factory and offices to Malaysia in 2006 and it was an excellent move to make, summer all year round is the bonus plus low living costs - as for retirement - certainly not - I stiil go to the offices 7 days a week to keep my brain cells alive. If I reired I would be at home just being a damn nuisance

 

Although we still have a house in Driffield, East Yorkshire and family there, I havnt been back for 10 years this year. My wife plits her time between Malaysia, Driffield, and our daughter in Vancouver

 

I really see our lifestyle as possible through the education I had at WGS

 

Fees were not paid to Woodhouse grammar school, but to the West Riding County Council, for marginal 11 plus results, if places were available in the 50's. Check it out.

[athy 10]

I went to Swallownest School but then passed my 11+ in 1951 starting at WGS in September 1951 and leaving in 1958

 

I wonder if my Dad taught you - Mr. John Atherton - he was Head of English at WGS throughout those years.

[victormh 10]

Yes he did he was the main guy for English and I remember if in Detention he made us write essays on difficult subjects - then he woruld read and spell check and you had to re-write with correct spellings befoe you could go home

 

Others at the time when Francis Bertram Pinion was Headmaster was Wynn, Fox, Caine, Baston, Calendar, Gill, and many more I cannot think of right now

[athy 10]

Yes he did he was the main guy for English and I remember if in Detention he made us write essays on difficult subjects - then he woruld read and spell check and you had to re-write with correct spellings befoe you could go home

 

Others at the time when Francis Bertram Pinion was Headmaster was Wynn, Fox, Caine, Baston, Calendar, Gill, and many more I cannot think of right now

 

As they say nowadays, "Tell me about it"! Many's the time that I had to rewrite my English essays after he'd read them (I was, of course, not at Woodhouse, he was simply my Dad). He kept a pack of Correcting Fluid at home so that I could erase and rewrite bits he didn't approve of. It consisted of two bottles of liquid, of which the first erased the ink, and the second restored the surface so that it could be written on again. At least, that's how I remember it. I think that polishing the paper with a fingernail came into it somewhere. This was before Tipp-Ex, by the way.

 

I remember most of those teachers, as some of them would come and visit us at home in Gleadless and I think Mac Wynn lived near us, and that Dad had no great, er, opinion of Pinion. I wonder if "Calendar" would be Mrs. Mallender?

Edited March 14, 2017 by athy

[Texas 10]

Did anyone go to Dronfield Grammer? It seems that if you lived in, for instance, Beighton which would be in Derbyshire pre' 60's, you could get a place there.

[victormh 10]

Reply to post by Athy

 

Mmmm I dont think many liked F.B.Pinion

 

Wynne I last saw around 1961/62 he lived a few doors from a work friend by the name of Roy Christian who was an accountant. I also visited him with 2 class friends in July 1957 and I think he had just recently moved into the house at that time

Miss Calander was not who you think - she was quite young and attractive and Geography Teacher

Another English Teacher was Miss Glyn (e called her Blossom) who seemed to be ancient at the time but left after a short while because she could not control any class of any age group

Others I recall being Langrish, Barber, Kelsey, Fox, Beynon, Wordsworth, and of course the pet saying of Jessie Baston - "you sir will come to a very sticky end"

mmm - long time ago Athy

[athy 10]

Reply to post by Athy

 

Mmmm I dont think many liked F.B.Pinion

 

Wynne I last saw around 1961/62 he lived a few doors from a work friend by the name of Roy Christian who was an accountant. I also visited him with 2 class friends in July 1957 and I think he had just recently moved into the house at that time

Miss Calander was not who you think - she was quite young and attractive and Geography Teacher

Another English Teacher was Miss Glyn (e called her Blossom) who seemed to be ancient at the time but left after a short while because she could not control any class of any age group

Others I recall being Langrish, Barber, Kelsey, Fox, Beynon, Wordsworth, and of course the pet saying of Jessie Baston - "you sir will come to a very sticky end"

mmm - long time ago Athy

 

Ah, so you had a Calender and a Mallender? I seem to remember Dad saying that WGS had a Mr. Guy and a Mr. Fawkes, too! I remember Harry Beynon, also "Bink" Barker, I think they were both senior masters.

The last WGS member of staff I saw was Jessie Baston; despite being well into her 80s and not very mobile, she made the effort to attend Dad's funeral in 2004. I believe that she has since passed away, but I'll remember my admiration for that determined effort.

[soft ayperth 11]

At High Storrs (boys) 1954-61 the gym slipper on a pupil's backside was the customary form of corporal punishment. The headmaster and deputy headmaster used canes. Lesser forms of punishment consisted of detention (having to stay for half an hour to an hour after school, often having to solve mind boggling long division sums) or lines. Lines (50, 100, or even more) usually started "I must not......"

[Don Turner 10]

There is talk of grammar schools being reinstated. Did you go to a grammar school in the 1950s or 1960s? What were your impressions of them? Was the method of selection fair?

Yes. Nether Edge GS for boys. Selection by 11+

A small GS. Good school. Ideal for immature boys like me.

Don Turner

[echo beach 580]

There is talk of grammar schools being reinstated. Did you go to a grammar school in the 1950s or 1960s? What were your impressions of them? Was the method of selection fair?

 

I took the 11+ exam in 1956 and failed so I can't provide a direct impression of what they were like. I do know that most of the students who did gain entry, extol their virtues and I've no doubt they were excellent for them.

 

Looking back the problem was that there were a number of variables connected to the selection process which impeded its fairness.

 

Primarily, there was no predetermined pass/fail mark. The success rate depended on where you lived in the UK and the number of grammar/technical school places available in that region. Hence, in Outer London,the South West and Wales 37-42% of pupils passed whilst in the North and parts of the Midlands the rate was much lower. Sheffield had a pass rate of 30%.

 

Secondly, because children were only allowed to start school in the term of their 5th birthday those born in the Christmas term had had the benefit of several more months education when sitting the 11+ test as compared to those born later in the academic year. (athy previously referred to this on 10th March.)

 

Thirdly, family background played a major role and, of course, it still does today. The tests were biased towards children from middle class backgrounds where, more often than not, education was valued and support given to their children with their studies.

 

Finally, primary schools were organized on a streamed basis. So, 4JA referred to by jstarr, would be the A class of of the 4th year in the juniors at Abbey Lane.

In large schools there would have been several other classes in the same year. Excellent teaching obviously played a role but, particularly in their final year, the A class would be taught to the test and would have had the benefit of immense practice whereas other classes had only a cursory glance of what was to come. What was the point of coaching all pupils to pass the 11+ when places weren't available for them at grammar/technical school anyway?

 

So, in my day in Sheffield 70% of children ended up in Secondary Modern schools. The education was basic; we were 'ruled by the rod', as was the norm and we left school without the opportunity to take any nationally recognized qualifications.

 

Grammar and technical high schools provided a fast track to higher qualifications and professional careers: with secondary modern schools it was more a long and winding road or a dead end.

 

Personally I enjoyed my time in school. I subsequently went on to better things, gaining a degree and a post graduate diploma and forging a career in teaching and I know peers who have becomes doctors, pilots and successful business people. So failure at 11 was not necessarily the end of the road.

 

I have always thought it was unacceptable to classify children at such a young and formative age as a success or a failure and I wouldn't want us to go back to that.

 

The future lies in science, engineering and technology and as such, in my opinion, the Government would be wiser investing in specialist schools in those areas.

 

echo.

[trastrick 866]

I took the 11+ exam in 1956 and failed so I can't provide a direct impression of what they were like. I do know that most of the students who did gain entry, extol their virtues and I've no doubt they were excellent for them.

 

Looking back the problem was that there were a number of variables connected to the selection process which impeded its fairness.

 

Primarily, there was no predetermined pass/fail mark. The success rate depended on where you lived in the UK and the number of grammar/technical school places available in that region. Hence, in Outer London,the South West and Wales 37-42% of pupils passed whilst in the North and parts of the Midlands the rate was much lower. Sheffield had a pass rate of 30%.

 

Secondly, because children were only allowed to start school in the term of their 5th birthday those born in the Christmas term had had the benefit of several more months education when sitting the 11+ test as compared to those born later in the academic year. (athy previously referred to this on 10th March.)

 

Thirdly, family background played a major role and, of course, it still does today. The tests were biased towards children from middle class backgrounds where, more often than not, education was valued and support given to their children with their studies.

 

Finally, primary schools were organized on a streamed basis. So, 4JA referred to by jstarr, would be the A class of of the 4th year in the juniors at Abbey Lane.

In large schools there would have been several other classes in the same year. Excellent teaching obviously played a role but, particularly in their final year, the A class would be taught to the test and would have had the benefit of immense practice whereas other classes had only a cursory glance of what was to come. What was the point of coaching all pupils to pass the 11+ when places weren't available for them at grammar/technical school anyway?

 

So, in my day in Sheffield 70% of children ended up in Secondary Modern schools. The education was basic; we were 'ruled by the rod', as was the norm and we left school without the opportunity to take any nationally recognized qualifications.

 

Grammar and technical high schools provided a fast track to higher qualifications and professional careers: with secondary modern schools it was more a long and winding road or a dead end.

 

Personally I enjoyed my time in school. I subsequently went on to better things, gaining a degree and a post graduate diploma and forging a career in teaching and I know peers who have becomes doctors, pilots and successful business people. So failure at 11 was not necessarily the end of the road.

 

I have always thought it was unacceptable to classify children at such a young and formative age as a success or a failure and I wouldn't want us to go back to that.

 

The future lies in science, engineering and technology and as such, in my opinion, the Government would be wiser investing in specialist schools in those areas.

 

echo.

 

An excellent overview! This should be archived for future reference in the education community. It answers many questions about the education system in those post war years!

 

Like you, I failed the 11+. From J3B (single welfare mom, free dinners, free boots, etc) but went on to do well in school.

 

It wasn't necessarily fatal, the alternative was often a useful trade, a lucrative stall in the market.

 

Occasionally some of us went on to wider educational pursuits. I actually, in my semi-retirement, taught in a grammar school for a year (contract), while serving 3 years as Science Link Governor in another.

 

I still get about 8 pounds a month in pension, but my prize possession is a hand signed letter from Charles Clarke, Secretary of State, thanking me for a "lifetime of service to the education community" on my "retirement!

 

Politicians!

Edited March 20, 2017 by trastrick

[athy 10]

Another plaudit for Echo Beach's considered and informative post, most of which I agree with.