Local french councils ban the "Burkini" on French beaches

[Zamo 10]

It's no more possible for an average Muslim to "reform" their religion than it is for a Christian to somehow make the pope stop telling people not to use birth control.

 

Zamo expects to hold Muslims to a higher standard of behaviour than the believers of any other religion.

 

You are probably right that they cannot reform it... I have already cast the same doubt.

 

I hold the followers of Islam to exactly the same standards as those of any other religion... practice your religion but make sure it doesn't unreasonable impact on the freedoms, health and wealth of others. On that score Islam is a fail and I have very negative views of it as a result.

 

I asked if all muslims were to blame - the above is your best effort in reply.

 

In terms you do think/believe all muslims are to blame (and your comparison to the police is lame)- because you despise the religion they follow - thats your opinion - your solution (or one you would be happy with) is what ? That muslims cease to be muslims ?

That they behave better than other followers of various religions ?

 

There are degrees of both responsibility and blame. Poor parenting could be blamed for an adult becoming a criminal. You could say the parent were responsible. But you wouldn't hold them to account in the same way as you would the criminal... they may have shaped him but they didn't directly make him do the things he did.

 

So, yes, all Muslims are to blame and responsible for the extremism that oozes from a religion they choose to practice, propagate and perpetuate despite this know failing.

 

I'm sticking my right hand up and my middle finger is pointing upwards, that is the response I have for you.

 

And that's the problem. I point out how your 'moderate' beliefs are actually intolerant and extreme and you just stick your finger up. You can't say I'm wrong because I'm not... you basically say you don't care.

 

does that mean Muslims are Neo Neo Nazis ?

 

I understand that us White Europeans don't want to be associated with the Nazis, but for you to shift all that guilt onto the Muslims is probably the strangest thing you've ever posted.

 

Firstly, it wasn't me that decided to start making comparisons to WWII. All I did was point out that is is clearly wrong to compare Muslims with the plight of Jews in WWII.

 

Secondly... you need to read my post again. I clearly said that the Islamic extremists were akin to the Nazi's. The Muslims are akin to the German people as a whole who allowed such extremist nonsense to go unchallenged, grow and consume their country. As a result of their failure to contain the extremism from within them came under attack. Do you think that is an unfair comparison and if so why?

[WestTinsley 11]

It's no more possible for an average Muslim to "reform" their religion than it is for a Christian to somehow make the pope stop telling people not to use birth control.

 

Zamo expects to hold Muslims to a higher standard of behaviour than the believers of any other religion.

I agree with your responses

All talk of reform of Islam from anti Muslims is a joke.

 

But reform in Islam is not new.

The problem over the past few decades has been the type of Islam promoted by Saudi Arabia..

The last paragraph http://english.al-akhbar.com/content/radical-reform-islam-shaykh-abdullah-al-alayli mentions some names and theories of radical reform in Islam in recent times

[Jukes 10]

If Muslims can not reform Islam who can? I do not understand how western people insult Muslims by saying that they can not change. This is racism like saying that black people are less intelligent or less civilised than white people.

 

I have confidence that moderate Muslim voices will become more brave and will have their voice heard and that Islam will begin its reform as more Muslims are enlightened and understand that their religion can modernise and be better. Eventually Imams will all preach love instead of hate and division and oppression and Muslims will stop fearing for their life if they ask questions instead of blindly following instructions. Muslims will begin to love their life more than the moment of their death just like Christians and non believers. Women will pray with men and gay couples will not live in secret. Women will have free lives and not live in the shadow of men.

 

Hashtag #notinmyname is not good enough and it insults modern reforming Muslims who must have the confidence to make the changes and the support of everyone else. Muslims can do all this and they must as nobody will do it for them. Everyone else must encourage them and not make feeble excuses for an unreformed religion. It is a big insult to Muslims to say that they can not or do not want to change.

 

Jukes x

[Cyclone 10]

Muslim is not a race, it's a religion.

I didn't say that "Muslims" can't change, I said that the average Muslim cannot change the religion, I also said that the same is true of Christians (and it's true for all other religions as well).

[Jukes 10]

Muslim is not a race, it's a religion.

I didn't say that "Muslims" can't change, I said that the average Muslim cannot change the religion, I also said that the same is true of Christians (and it's true for all other religions as well).

 

Now you are wriggling like a worm caught on a hook because your racism and prejudice against the intelligence and ability of Muslims has been exposed.

 

Jukes x

[Solomon1 10]

Just as with Germany, the Muslim people need to find a way to stop the extremism that comes from within. They need to distance themselves from the extremism so they stop being the fodder that feeds it. If they don't, and the extremism continues to provoke and intensify, it is only a matter of time before there is retaliation against them... that's the uncomfortable reality of conflict like this

 

Zamo, if you were a Sheffield muslim family man

 

Minding your own business

 

What could YOU do as an individual, to shift the paradigm?

[Cyclone 10]

Now you are wriggling like a worm caught on a hook because your racism and prejudice against the intelligence and ability of Muslims has been exposed.

 

Jukes x

 

Err, not in the slightest.

[Jukes 10]

Zamo, if you were a Sheffield muslim family man

 

Minding your own business

 

What could YOU do as an individual, to shift the paradigm?

 

He can question the holy texts that are not compatible with his life.

He can reject the Medina Muslims and what they stand for.

He can insist that men and women pray together.

He can encourage the women in his family to live the same as men.

He can tell his family and friends that he thinks that being gay is normal.

He can allow his children to see who they like and marry who they love.

He can take his children out of class where they learn that Islam comes before life itself.

 

These are all simple things that everyone can do if they believe that Islam can be a modern religion of peace.

[Solomon1 10]

He can question the holy texts that are not compatible with his life.

He can reject the Medina Muslims and what they stand for.

He can insist that men and women pray together.

He can encourage the women in his family to live the same as men.

He can tell his family and friends that he thinks that being gay is normal.

He can allow his children to see who they like and marry who they love.

He can take his children out of class where they learn that Islam comes before life itself.

 

These are all simple things that everyone can do if they believe that Islam can be a modern religion of peace.

 

Since when have you been Zamo?

[Jukes 10]

Since when have you been Zamo?

 

I am telling you my opinion of your question.

 

Jukes x

[Solomon1 10]

I am telling you my opinion of your question.

 

Jukes x

 

I did not ask for it

 

x

[Robin-H 11]

I did not ask for it

 

x

 

It's an open forum. Whether you asked for it or not is irrelevant.