Local french councils ban the "Burkini" on French beaches

[Solomon1 10]

Zamo is a recruiting Sargent for extremists and he doesn't realise it

 

You'll have to explain this one

 

Break it down for me please mafya?

[mafya 243]

You'll have to explain this one

 

Break it down for me please mafya?

 

This article explains it= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-day/isis-want-to-divide-our-c_b_10139586.html

[Solomon1 10]

This article explains it= http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/michael-day/isis-want-to-divide-our-c_b_10139586.html

 

Thanks for that dude

 

I do understand what you're saying mafya -

 

That we're all in this together! And Daesh want to divide us...

 

And are being helped by the mainstream media crap-stirrring machine

 

I totally get that!

 

But I also understand where zamo's coming from -

 

That extremisim needs to be tackled head on within muslim communities and not pussyfooting round the issues as 'someone else's problem'

 

Some ownership is required by muslims, which means getting over pride and fully understanding that they have to meet the rest of the community half way....

 

Or they are painted with the same brush, if they don't OPENLY distance themselves

 

Does that make sense?

[L00b 441]

Does that make sense?

Makes perfect sense to me, Sol.

 

But I've butted head with mafya (and others I'm sure) about that exact point (which is different from the "you're all as bad as each other" standpoint) for months, if not longer.

 

They either don't see it.

 

Or they don't want to see it.

 

Or they place far too much faith (pun not intended) into the goodness of the public/government/authorities at large.

 

Meanwhile...

 

...the intolerance grows, unabated

[The Joker 10]

If Zamo is gay most British Muslims want it to be illegal for him to fall in love.

 

Jukes x

 

You do know that in Islam, every Muslim is supposed to love every other Muslim more than they love themselves? Okay, so they don't do it in practice, but that's what the scripture says they should do.

 

Tell Zamo that if he becomes a Muslim, he can fall in love with as many Muslim men as he likes.

[pretty_big 10]

Thanks for that dude

 

I do understand what you're saying mafya -

 

That we're all in this together! And Daesh want to divide us...

 

And are being helped by the mainstream media crap-stirrring machine

 

I totally get that!

 

But I also understand where zamo's coming from -

 

That extremisim needs to be tackled head on within muslim communities and not pussyfooting round the issues as 'someone else's problem'

 

Some ownership is required by muslims, which means getting over pride and fully understanding that they have to meet the rest of the community half way....

 

Or they are painted with the same brush, if they don't OPENLY distance themselves

 

Does that make sense?

 

They're not called Daesh they're called Islamic state

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 21:59 ----------

 

Makes perfect sense to me, Sol.

 

But I've butted head with mafya (and others I'm sure) about that exact point (which is different from the "you're all as bad as each other" standpoint) for months, if not longer.

 

They either don't see it.

 

Or they don't want to see it.

 

Or they place far too much faith (pun not intended) into the goodness of the public/government/authorities at large.

 

Meanwhile...

 

...the intolerance grows, unabated

 

If the see it or choose not to see it, they're part of the problem.

[The Joker 10]

They're not called Daesh they're called Islamic state

 

"And hillbillies want to be called 'Sons of the Soil', but it ain't gonna happen." ~ Dr. Hibbert

[redfox 10]

"There is no point blaming anyone for Islamic extremism other than the followers of Islam who practice, propagate and perpetuate the religion out of choice"

 

So all followers are to blame ? These are your words Zamo not anyone else's

 

Please read your words very carefully - as should all those reading this thread - it is in terms all muslims are to blame - end of.

Over to you Z - correction welcome !

[Solomon1 10]

Makes perfect sense to me, Sol.

 

But I've butted head with mafya (and others I'm sure) about that exact point (which is different from the "you're all as bad as each other" standpoint) for months, if not longer.

 

They either don't see it.

 

Or they don't want to see it.

 

Or they place far too much faith (pun not intended) into the goodness of the public/government/authorities at large.

 

Meanwhile...

 

...the intolerance grows, unabated

 

I do find it a little peculiar all round tbh!

 

If we all stood together against Daesh, muslims and non-muslims TOGETHER, they would be gone

 

Muslims won't follow non-muslims

 

So it's muslims that need to lead the way

 

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here mafya?

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 23:15 ----------

 

They're not called Daesh they're called Islamic

 

Daesh is their name in Arabic

 

And we should all use it henceforth

 

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/why-isis-will-hate-it-if-we-start-calling-them-daesh--bkC822p_zl

[mafya 243]

Thanks for that dude

 

I do understand what you're saying mafya -

 

That we're all in this together! And Daesh want to divide us...

 

And are being helped by the mainstream media crap-stirrring machine

 

I totally get that!

 

But I also understand where zamo's coming from -

 

That extremisim needs to be tackled head on within muslim communities and not pussyfooting round the issues as 'someone else's problem'

 

Some ownership is required by muslims, which means getting over pride and fully understanding that they have to meet the rest of the community half way....

 

Or they are painted with the same brush, if they don't OPENLY distance themselves

 

Does that make sense?

 

Makes perfect sense to me, Sol.

 

But I've butted head with mafya (and others I'm sure) about that exact point (which is different from the "you're all as bad as each other" standpoint) for months, if not longer.

 

They either don't see it.

 

Or they don't want to see it.

 

Or they place far too much faith (pun not intended) into the goodness of the public/government/authorities at large.

 

Meanwhile...

 

...the intolerance grows, unabated

 

What exactly are we the non extremist Muslims supposed to do then to combat the extremist problem that the security services and army personnel of the worlds super powers are struggling with?

You are going off as if we have some magic formula to sort out the problem but are not using it so I would like to know what is expected of us?

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 23:40 ----------

 

I do find it a little peculiar all round tbh!

 

If we all stood together against Daesh, muslims and non-muslims TOGETHER, they would be gone

 

Muslims won't follow non-muslims

 

So it's muslims that need to lead the way

 

Do you see the point I'm trying to make here mafya?

 

---------- Post added 14-09-2016 at 23:15 ----------

 

 

Daesh is their name in Arabic

 

And we should all use it henceforth

 

http://indy100.independent.co.uk/article/why-isis-will-hate-it-if-we-start-calling-them-daesh--bkC822p_zl

 

My bold=

Plenty of Muslims are fighting Daesh and losing their lives around the world so no it's not only non Muslims fighting Daesh.

More Muslims have been killed by Daesh then non Muslims so non Muslims need to stop making out they are the only victims of Daesh although it's only when non Muslims country's are attacked by terrorists that people get angry and change their avatars to the flag of the country that's been hit.

Not many people in uproar about these poor souls eh? = http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3786767/ISIS-celebrates-Eid-butchering-prisoners-like-sheep-slaughterhouse-atrocity-dubbed-worst-execution-video.html

 

What about these victims? = http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/baghdad-bombing-attack-latest-news-isis-islamic-state-death-toll-shopping-centre-ramadan-shia-a7122196.html

I don't see any non Muslims standing in solidarity with these victims or any avatars being changed to the Iraqi flag and yet you say Muslims don't stand together with non Muslims.

Are non Muslim lives worth more than Muslim ones?

Edited September 14, 2016 by mafya

[Solomon1 10]

What exactly are we the non extremist Muslims supposed to do then to combat the extremist problem that the security services and army personnel of the worlds super powers are struggling with?

You are going off as if we have some magic formula to sort out the problem but are not using it so I would like to know what is expected of us?

 

OK, so if I was muslim mafya

 

I'd be lobbying my local Imam to discuss it at sermons and make it clear that the community stands AGAINST Daesh

 

To report extremist leanings of young males/females to other family members and encourage them to talk about it

 

My bold=

Plenty of Muslims are fighting Daesh and losing their lives around the world so no it's not only non Muslims fighting Daesh

 

Agreed

 

More Muslims have been killed by Daesh then non Muslims so non Muslims need to stop making out they are the only victims of Daesh although it's only when non Muslims country's are attacked by terrorists that people get angry and change their avatars to the flag of the country that's been hit

 

This made me angry too mafya

 

But actually I think it's more of a proximity issue now than race

 

We're just closer to France than we are to Turkey and have more in common!

[L00b 441]

What exactly are we the non extremist Muslims supposed to do then to combat the extremist problem that the security services and army personnel of the worlds super powers are struggling with?

On the one hand, foster a deep aversion to militantism and proselytism, on the other hand, feed these security services with as much intelligence as the members of the community come across, locally and online, as soon as they do.

 

Above all else, make a ton of PR noise about the above.

You are going off as if we have some magic formula to sort out the problem but are not using it so I would like to know what is expected of us?

Nope, I've not done that.

 

The Muslim community is being demonised by populist politicians and, due to a feedback loop between public sentiment and political opportunism, gradually by mainstream politicians. As Zamo said, and he is right in that respect at least, it's unfair, it's unjust, <etc.> but it's happening.

 

As we've discussed before, and as I've made clear each time,

• I'm not advocating actual or practical solutions as such, because there isn't any magic bullet to solve this issue.
  
• I'm not criticising or taking pot-shots at Muslim communities either, because I'm well aware that the very vast majority of Muslims leads, and wants to continue to lead, a peaceful and normal life.
  
• I'm not criticising or taking pot-shots at non-proselyte ('mainstream') Islam, because its ordinary practice by its followers has no more relevance to me personally than Judaism, Catholicism <etc.>, so live and let live so long as it doesn't impact me personally.
  
• I'm just observing how the Muslim community is being gradually finger-pointed in media and political spheres (particularly since summer 2015, the intolerance seems to have grown geometrically since), how European and US populations are increasing lapping it up, how tolerance is shrinking generally (witness surge in hate crimes post-referendum), and I'm concerned.

It's not as if we didn't see one happen substantially like this 70-odd years ago, with a different set of faithful people

 

You and I and all right-thinking members of society can denounce this process for what it is, makes not a blind bit of difference: we are not the majority. Neither 'us' non-Muslim who see the ongoing issue and its momentum. Nor Muslim communities in Western Europe. Nor both together.

 

It's a PR war.

 

Sod all to do with religion as such, and not that much to do with terrorism itself.

 

Short of a political majority changing its tack short-term and actively denouncing and countering this issue, the only solution that I can see is for Muslim communities to do 'more than their bit' (or at least be perceived by this 'majority' which I'm on about, to be doing 'more than their bit') so that facts can speak louder than any amount of populist rethoric and misrepresentations.

 

Short of that, I don't see any end to this growing intolerance. Until and unless Daesh/Boko Haram/<etc.> are somehow done away with. Which I don't expect to happen any time soon, if in my lifetime even.

Edited September 15, 2016 by L00b