geared   268 #217 Posted March 23, 2016 True in part, although you have to take these things with a pinch of salt and actually look into the history behind the transport network.  The common line trotted out is: "Building more roads creates more traffic as more people choose to use a car"  What it doesn't acknowledge is that other forms of public transport have been creaking under pressure for ages and also need massive improvement. IMO people take the easiest and cheapest travel option, and if you lay in a lovely new road somewhere without sorting out the public transport issue then it's obvious more people will take to the car.  The old phrase "people aren't as stupid as you think" is quite fitting and something Government seem to often forget. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
1978 Â Â 14 #218 Posted March 29, 2016 Its not quite as simple as that though, suppressed demand means that building more roads creates more traffic. Â Look at how the M25 created a greater demand than was anticipated at the planning stage. When it first opened it immediately made possible journeys that would not have been attempted by driving through London. The same applies to most new roads. Â We have a bottleneck 2 lane section on the M18 between the A1(M) and the M180 junctions. The original plan was for 3 lanes, but the money ran out. Turns out the original plan was correct, the ease of access to the Humber ports has generated more traffic for both the road and the ports. Â A tunnel would take pressure off the M62 and add more pressure to link roads either side. If it is to be built it should be at least 2 lane dual carriageway, preferably motorway, from the M1 to the M56. The cost will be enormous and adding a railway tunnel alongside probably too expensive for the gain to be achieved. Â However, stranger things have happened. The tunnel and bridge link between Denmark and Sweden took a long time to plan, but it's there, road and rail. Â Of course we must remember the rail Northern Hub was originally the Manchester Hub. Just as all roads and rails lead to London, sucking everything into the centre, the same effect will be achieved in the north, sucking all to Manchester. Whether that's good or bad remains to be seen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Nagel   10 #219 Posted August 18, 2016 In the news today - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/18/britains-longest-underground-road-tunnel-could-feature-palm-tree/  Not sure why they call it an 'underground' tunnel. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #220 Posted August 18, 2016 In the news today - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/08/18/britains-longest-underground-road-tunnel-could-feature-palm-tree/ Not sure why they call it an 'underground' tunnel.  You could build an overground tube-like construction to go over the peaks. With or without palm trees, neither will happen. When we really really need a decent road between Sheffield and Manchester they'll just carve one through the peak district and let the environment be damned. It wont happen yet, you could easily give it another 20 years of the current system but we wont get a tunnel. Ever. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
geared   268 #221 Posted August 18, 2016 They're just making noise to appease the masses and buy themselves time till they can make an acceptable excuse and kill the idea for another generation. The chance of any real amount of government transport money being spent outside of London is quite remote.  If it doesn't benefit London they just aren't interested. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
*_ash_*   87 #222 Posted August 18, 2016 They're just making noise to appease the masses and buy themselves time till they can make an acceptable excuse and kill the idea for another generation. The chance of any real amount of government transport money being spent outside of London is quite remote.  If it doesn't benefit London they just aren't interested.  As unlikely as any tunnel built (in this country anyway, places like China, France or Germany would have already started on it), I heard on the radio that it would cost £6b. Yeah right! £6b would be ****** away before the first blade of grass was snipped. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
tinfoilhat   11 #223 Posted August 18, 2016 As unlikely as any tunnel built (in this country anyway, places like China, France or Germany would have already started on it), I heard on the radio that it would cost £6b. Yeah right! £6b would be ****** away before the first blade of grass was snipped.  I think they missed a zero off. And that's probably not including the palm trees.  ---------- Post added 18-08-2016 at 22:57 ----------  They're just making noise to appease the masses and buy themselves time till they can make an acceptable excuse and kill the idea for another generation. The chance of any real amount of government transport money being spent outside of London is quite remote.  If it doesn't benefit London they just aren't interested.  London needs another orbital motorway. There's not even plans for that to the best of my knowledge. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
alchresearch   206 #224 Posted August 19, 2016 I really can't believe they're still trying to build up our hopes with this scheme.  Tunnels are all well and good in other countries, but ours are grotty and done on the cheap. If you've ever been through the Tyne or Mersey Tunnels you'll know exactly what I mean.  They'll end up saying it will be too expensive and then, like Tinfoilhat says, want to carve a road through instead.  And that will be held up for decades with legal challenges, just like the Mottram bypass. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Cyclone   10 #225 Posted August 19, 2016 Mottram hasn't had any legal challenges has it? All the locals and residents are more than keen. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Brian Equato   10 #226 Posted August 19, 2016 Mottram hasn't had any legal challenges has it? All the locals and residents are more than keen.  The opposition generally came from this side of the Pennines, don't think too many in Mottram were against it. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
nightrider   13 #227 Posted August 19, 2016 The opposition generally came from this side of the Pennines, don't think too many in Mottram were against it.  what was the objection from this side - just general opposition to building on countryside? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
geared   268 #228 Posted August 19, 2016 London needs another orbital motorway. There's not even plans for that to the best of my knowledge.  and I can fully believe that London will get another orbital road before a tunnel is built between two Northern cities :hihi:  Mottram hasn't had any legal challenges has it? All the locals and residents are more than keen.  There's been an awful lot of pressure from the environmental mob, which has constantly delayed things. No-one has really had the backbone to tackle the issue so the can just keeps on getting kicked further and further down the road. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...