Manchester to Sheffield road tunnel plans

[the fonz 10]

Not really. Once you know that a 38 mile tunnel is going to cost you at least£10 billion quid you can work out if you can afford it. That seems a better idea than spending £10 million to find it will cost an estimated £10.2365 billion (but possibly 25% more) before deciding you haven't got anywhere near enough to press ahead.

 

But a feasibility study isn't designed to answer that question. The question isn't ,'can we afford it?' its 'is it worth it?'

 

The govt can afford anything if they think there is a good enough return on their investment.

 

Working out the cost is stage 1, working out the benefits is the second and more complication stage.

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 13:07 ----------

 

Amazing that Birmingham have turned their canal basin into a thriving nightlife hub, most people don't even know that Sheffield has one. What a missed opportunity.

 

The latest Masterplan is designed to improve that, with the timescale very dependant on the HS2 location.

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 13:11 ----------

 

I moved here after uni as did most of my friends, we are all doing pretty well here and I really don't see this Little Sheffielder culture. But perhaps that just re-enforces your point, that those not born and bred here don't have the same culture?

 

I agree completely, in my 10+ years experience there is a certain level of inverted snobbery from many people who were born and bread in Sheffield, not all but a good majority. Whereas many of my friends who moved to Sheffield are much more upbeat about its prospects.

Edited March 18, 2016 by the fonz

[foxy lady 10]

Think we'll be likely to see human colonies on Mars before a Sheffield-Manchester tunnel (Or HS3 come to that) but if HS2 were actually built, would that put us in what you might call "The gravitational pull" of London rendering East-West connections less important, I mean people commute daily from Grantham to London on the ECML and time wise HS2 Sheffield-London would be as fast.

 

I think there is a very big danger posed by HS2. If it is (when) built it will pretty much by-pass Sheffield and link in to a Northern Powerhouse which is Liverpool, Manchester, Salford, Leeds and Bradford. It will simply encourage further transport links between those places.

As far as I can see the only way around that would be to build fast and reliable links between Sheffield and the west of the Pennines that didn't involve a 35-40 minute journey North before it started. Unless Sheffield is properly linked with Manchester before HS2 arrives, Sheffield will be isolated in the same way as Scunthorpe. Everyone knows where it is but no one makes the detour to check it out.

[the fonz 10]

I think there is a very big danger posed by HS2. If it is (when) built it will pretty much by-pass Sheffield and link in to a Northern Powerhouse which is Liverpool, Manchester, Salford, Leeds and Bradford. It will simply encourage further transport links between those places.

As far as I can see the only way around that would be to build fast and reliable links between Sheffield and the west of the Pennines that didn't involve a 35-40 minute journey North before it started. Unless Sheffield is properly linked with Manchester before HS2 arrives, Sheffield will be isolated in the same way as Scunthorpe. Everyone knows where it is but no one makes the detour to check it out.

 

As previously mentioned the link between Sheffield and Manchester is terrible and this should at least prioritise an improvement, I do however agree that there is a real risk that Sheffield and more specifically Sheffield city centre misses out completely.

 

Even with the tunnel, which by my guess would come out somewhere to the north of Sheffield, the only thing that will really boost the regeneration in the city is the central location of the HS2 station.

[geared 303]

Well obviously no-one is going to run a motorway tunnel into the centre of Sheffield are they??

 

Everyone involved in HS2 have already said there's no chance of it being in the centre of the city, yet the debate continues?

[Solomon88 10]

This is the latest one built, not very long but cost a bit. I dont know how they disperse smoke. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hindhead_Tunnel

 

Read your link..

[the fonz 10]

Well obviously no-one is going to run a motorway tunnel into the centre of Sheffield are they??

 

Everyone involved in HS2 have already said there's no chance of it being in the centre of the city, yet the debate continues?

 

The tunnel will link the motorway network so its easy enough to completely avoid Sheffield, although there will be obvious benefits for Sheffield's commuters and shoppers I cant help but think Manchester will benefit more than Sheffield.

 

As for HS2 the powers that be in Sheffield do seem the only people who still think there is a debate. Recent changes in Leeds specifically seem to have given them (maybe false) hope. There is also the growing evidence that the central location brings more benefits in terms of jobs, combined with the seemingly increasing importance of linking the major cities in the North.

 

The official announcement date has been postponed a few times so maybe its not quite as clear cut as it appears?

[geared 303]

The tunnel will link the motorway network so its easy enough to completely avoid Sheffield, although there will be obvious benefits for Sheffield's commuters and shoppers I cant help but think Manchester will benefit more than Sheffield.

 

What are you on crack??

 

The benefit for South Yorkshire will be pretty big, but lets be honest not many people from Manchester are looking for work over here.

 

We have much more to gain that they do.

[Longcol 598]

Upgrading the present Woodhead road to dual carriageway would be by far and away the most cost effective option - and most likely give the quickest journey time.

 

The long tunnels on the continent (eg Mont Blanc Tunnel) are single carraigeway, subject to speed restrictions (50 mph max), have restrictions on distance between vehicles, have long queues to access them (half an hour plus at a quiet time), and are generally subject to steep tolls.

 

http://www.chamonix.net/english/travel/mont-blanc-tunnel

[the fonz 10]

What are you on crack??

 

The benefit for South Yorkshire will be pretty big, but lets be honest not many people from Manchester are looking for work over here.

 

We have much more to gain that they do.

 

You seem to be contradicting yourself.

 

Can you explain how we have so much more to gain if its so much easier for people to commute to Manchester for work/ shopping? Wont that result in a further decline in Sheffield's economy?

 

Are you saying we have more to gain because we are worse off?

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 16:24 ----------

 

Upgrading the present Woodhead road to dual carriageway would be by far and away the most cost effective option - and most likely give the quickest journey time.

 

I think the improvements, enlargement and the need to re-route the many utilities in current tunnels mean its cheaper to start again.

 

IIRC the existing tunnels are in a pretty poor state.

[Longcol 598]

 

I think the improvements, enlargement and the need to re-route the many utilities in current tunnels mean its cheaper to start again.

 

IIRC the existing tunnels are in a pretty poor state.

 

I'm talking about upgrading the existing the Woodhead road - not the old rail tunnels.

[the fonz 10]

I'm talking about upgrading the existing the Woodhead road - not the old rail tunnels.

 

Apologies. I misread your post.

 

Making more additional roadspace in a national park is never popular though. CPRE would have a field day.

[foxy lady 10]

I'm talking about upgrading the existing the Woodhead road - not the old rail tunnels.

 

That's the problem. You end up with what we have now. Roads that don't work in summer and are blocked with snow in winter. The Sheffield version of the northern powerhouse.