Hostages taken by gunmen in France.

[boyfriday 21]

Apparently Syrian refugees on the island of Bute in scotland want to move cos its too boring!!!!!

I rest my case.

 

..it needs a rest.

[Jukes 10]

try telling that to the families of those killed that dont obviously count

 

You could tell it to the families of the 263 people killed by Islamists in France in the last year and a half.

 

Jukes x

[Snapshot 10]

ok, as usual 3 pages of anti muslim sentiment on here and in your rush to find a story that puts muslims in a bad light not one mention on the forum of another tragic murder case, in Japan

 

19 people in a care home stabbed to death by an ex worker who wanted to rid the world of disabled people

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-36890655

 

Japans worst mass killing in decades and its one of the safest countries in the worl.

 

To be fair Mel, Tiz posted about this hours ago. You just didn't notice it because you were too busy frothing about this thread, in a rush to defend islam.

[ukdobby 223]

To be fair Mel, Tiz posted about this hours ago. You just didn't notice it because you were too busy frothing about this thread, in a rush to defend islam.

 

More people comment because its closer to home and the threat is all over Europe,I stopped in Rouen 6 weeks ago and will be driving through it next week,the killers here are plentiful,in Japan its one off nutter,in Europe plenty of nutters.

[Berberis 10]

No, I dont think [that if someone etc...]

 

Pig based funereal deterrents did not "work in Chechnya" as Ted Heath suggested. What "worked" in Chechnya was wholesale occupation, direct rule, the utter, utter destruction of Grozny, and a scorched earth policy, all delivered sans pigskin by the Russian military.

 

 

And Voila! Serapis ends Islamic fundamentalist suicide attacks with a Venn diagram and a pig based funereal deterrent.

 

Let me know when you're nominated for the Nobel.

 

I didn't say the troubles in Chechnya were solved by the pig skin method. I talked about the Moscow Opera hostage crisis. It doesn't seem to be very consistent with other nations experience of islamic terrorism for it to happen and then go away so quickly. Especially when Russia has not changed its approach and has been one of the largest groups in the middles east recently bombing insurgents. Russia appears to be void of any Islamic terrorism post 2002.

 

If there is a chance this approach had an effect, why deride its use? What reason is there not to try it?

 

---------- Post added 27-07-2016 at 08:54 ----------

 

It's written in the Quran.....

 

Mafya,

 

To my knowledge, It only states that your soul will bear what it earned. That's very ambiguous. Unless there are other verses I am unaware of that is.

[milquetoast1 10]

For over a century Russia has dominated and oppressed Central Asian Muslims. So why do the jihadis hate the USA, Europe and Israel so much more?

 

The USA has never colonised or ruled a Muslim nation like Russia has, it has attempted to help Muslims in Afghanistan, helped liberate Muslim Kuwait, and bombed and killed Christian Serbs to protect Balkan Muslims.

 

The US has spilled blood getting rid of Iran's most bitter enemy and the Shia Muslims' worst oppressor. Yet the US are the Great Satan, while the Iranian theocracy happily does business with the Russians and seldom says a word of condemnation against them.

 

Why?

 

Because the jihadists know the Russians are not susceptible to the therapeutic blackmail used against a self-loathing West. Our worst enemy is ourselves, as evidenced quite frequently on this very site.

[L00b 441]

I didn't say the troubles in Chechnya were solved by the pig skin method. I talked about the Moscow Opera hostage crisis. It doesn't seem to be very consistent with other nations experience of islamic terrorism for it to happen and then go away so quickly. Especially when Russia has not changed its approach and has been one of the largest groups in the middles east recently bombing insurgents. Russia appears to be void of any Islamic terrorism post 2002.

There's an airliner recently splattered all over the Arabic peninsula north of Sharm El Sheik, which disagrees with your assessment.

 

The Moscow Opera hostage crisis taught Russians/Moscovites, and terrorists, that it was pointless expecting Russian authorities to come rescue them/negotiate, so hostages might as well take the terrorists themselves right from the start of a crisis. The vast majority of Russian and Western security services academics and commentators agree on this aftermath 'effect'.

 

The above, and the combined facts that a sizeable number of everyday Russians appear to 'pack heat' at any one time, and that non-specialist authorities (common or garden police/militia) are significantly less than able to do anything about it, is probably what gives terrorists pause for thought.

 

Beyond that, indeed Putin is not adverse to fighting a brushfire with a thermobaric bomb. But that always has consequences.

 

For the little and relatively unknown story, the Moscow Opera hostage crisis was put together by the Chechen Islamic Special Units, after their former leader Arbi Barayev was killed in June 2001 in an eight-day Russian operation in Alkhan-Kala, at the end of which his head was handed to his family in front of television cameras.

 

Escalation does not work, unless one is ready to immediately ramp it up to total war waging. And even then, it has to be waged to its logical conclusion.

Edited July 27, 2016 by L00b

[Harrystottle 10]

Escalation does not work, unless one is ready to immediately ramp it up to total war waging. And even then, it has to be waged to its logical conclusion.

 

So let's think. Being sad and dignified does not work, as in coming up with hashtags, lighting up monuments in national colours, getting holy men of various denominations to stand together to show that "the men of violence will not divide us", etc etc. That doesn't work.

 

I don't know if escalating the violence doesn't work. Certainly the Germans haven't been violent to anybody as far as I can see, and it hasn't done them much good, so passivity doesn't work either.

 

So what do you reckon, all out war? Or will the population of Europe just have to grit their teeth and learn to put up with repeated attacks by Islamist militants?

Edited July 27, 2016 by Harrystottle
spelling

[unbeliever 10]

Escalation is the only thing which works with the likes of Daesh. Anything else will be taken as weakness and exploited as such.

Some people in this world can be bargained and reasoned with. Others cannot. Daesh fall into the second category.

[L00b 441]

So let's think. Being sad and dignified does not work, as in coming up with hashtags, lighting up monuments in national colours, getting holy men of various denominations to stand together to show that "the men of violence will not divide us", etc etc. That doesn't work.

 

I don't know if escalating the violence doesn't work. Certainly the Germans haven't been violent to anybody as far as I can see, and it hasn't done them much good, so passivity doesn't work either.

 

So what do you reckon, all out war? Or will the population of Europe just have to grit their teeth and learn to put up with repeated attacks by Islamist militants?

If a short- to medium-term halt to terror acts is wished for, yes. Absolutely. Every last Daesh soldier killed, ever last square mile of the Caliphate freed, followed by drastic, Chinese-like Internet censorship to ensure the Daesh electronic propaganda stays suffused long enough to stop winning minds.

 

Which is why I qualified my comment that "escalation does not work" with "unless one is ready to escalate to total war" (because there is no further escalation to be had 'up from' total war).

 

And total war means, just like last time (1940 to 1945), boots on the ground and planes in the air until the threat is fully and comprehensively annihilated.

 

And internment camps at home to mitigate potential terror/spying/partisan activity (which is, objectively, where the tagged perpetrator and his S-Listed ilk, whether tagged or not, should be rounded up and sent manu military, post-haste).

Escalation is the only thing which works with the likes of Daesh. Anything else will be taken as weakness and exploited as such.

Some people in this world can be bargained and reasoned with. Others cannot. Daesh fall into the second category.

See the above.

 

What I meant was that escalation does not work in a 'ratcheting' sense with the likes of Daesh. They have to be out-terrorised, or annihilated.

 

Since "out-terrorising" them would probably require commitments, acts and rules of engagememnt that would achieve close to annihilation, might as well do the job right.

 

The simple alternative is Western governments come to terms with, and recognise, the Caliphate. Which would make diplomatic life in the Middle East and with Russia fairly interesting. Chamberlain and the League of Nations tried that approach in the 30s. The US just ignored the other (and arguably more ideological than in Europe) problem to their West. That worked well

Edited July 27, 2016 by L00b

[Ted Heath 10]

Berberis, the 'chink in their armour' is love and the rest of mankind getting along with their business and embracing people of all races/religions/genders/sexualities/rich/poor etc etc as if nothing's happened.

 

In the grand scheme of things they're inconsequential, they kill handfuls of people recklessly using shocking means, as awful and sensational as that is they don't have access to military planes, sophisticated weaponry or nuclear bombs, so the other 700+ million population of Europe can sleep easy, the fear the terrorists try to instill in us isn't a real one.

 

Putting a dead Islamist terrorist in a pig lined sleeping bag will not expose the chink in their armour, it will just make the casual Muslim observer think we're arseholes...just like the terrorists we all denounce.

 

LOVE YOUR BROTHERS & SISTERS

 

Philosophically you are right. But, as a practical deterrent to terrorists who espouse Islam would this not work?

[unbeliever 10]

Philosophically you are right. But, as a practical deterrent to terrorists who espouse Islam would this not work?

 

It does not seem honourable to use the Islamists' religious beliefs against them in this way. Especially when those beliefs are shared by others who are not the enemy.

Daesh need killing. No more, no less.

Edited July 27, 2016 by unbeliever