£1bn Chinese investment in Sheffield

[Revel 10]

They integrate well? By what measure are you judging that- from what i can tell they keep entirely to themselves and only eat and drink in a very few chinese based/themed shops and restaurants.

 

I lived with a Chinese student in my halls. She was very polite, and yes, kept herself to herself.

 

What's your point?

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

Bravo. Amazing insight.

 

Who an earth said anything about a charitable gift?

Thank you!

 

I was just pointing out for the benefit of the more gullible amongst us that you don't get owt for nowt!

[Blackbeard 10]

They integrate well? By what measure are you judging that- from what i can tell they keep entirely to themselves and only eat and drink in a very few chinese based/themed shops and restaurants.

 

Have you ever seen the "average" Brit overseas?

[AndrewC 307]

... what's in it for them?

 

And some people think Brexit is going to be bad news...

 

So let's put this on the table now shall we;

 

You're quite right - what is in it for them? Easy, Profits.

 

When we got EU grants, did we ever have to the pay them back a dividend on profits etc? Did it leave half of Sheffield belonging to the EU? The EU, essentially took money from the Govt. then redistributed it to places like Sheffield which the Govt would otherwise have never concentrated investment on, if left to their own devices. Once we've left the EU, you can be sure we won't see that anymore. Instead we'll be relying on this type of investment.

 

But the trouble with that is, I think we can be sure that the Chinese will expect a bit more of a fiscal return on their investment than the EU ever did.

 

Oh, and these deals have been in the works for 18 months, which means they were a possibility before Brexit was ever a thing; we could have had our cake and eaten too!

 

(MrBloke - realise this post sounds like I'm having a go at you - I am not! Just picking up on your point)

Edited July 21, 2016 by AndrewC

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

So let's put this on the table now shall we;

 

You're quite right - what is in it for them? Easy, Profits.

 

When we got EU grants, did we ever have to the pay them back a dividend on profits etc? Did it leave half of Sheffield belonging to the EU? The EU, essentially took money from the Govt. then redistributed it to places like Sheffield which the Govt would otherwise have never concentrated investment on, if left to their own devices. Once we've left the EU, you can be sure we won't see that anymore. Instead we'll be relying on this type of investment.

 

But the trouble with that is, I think we can be sure that the Chinese will expect a bit more of a fiscal return on their investment than the EU ever did.

 

Oh, and these deals have been in the works for 18 months, which means they were a possibility before Brexit was ever a thing; we could have had our cake and eaten too!

 

(MrBloke - realise this post sounds like I'm having a go at you - I am not! Just picking up on your point)

No I realise that, I'm agreeing with you, really!

 

The same people who welcome Brexit are possibly the same people who are welcoming this (probably much worse?) deal.

 

It's worrying though that (if as reported) the council are being let loose to do as they please with such a large budget, given their previous track record (pun possibly intended ), and I think there must be some as yet undisclosed benefits to the Chinese company (other than just monetary) if they've agreed to that.

 

It appears that they're about to give the council £1 billion to do what they want with...

 

... but unlike some on here, I don't believe that for one minute!

 

I'm also not too sure if the EU grants would have kept coming once the Chinese deal was finalised, as there would presumably be far more worse off areas that could then benefit from these grants...

 

... so I don't think we could have had our cake and eaten it!

 

Anyway, that's it - I'm done!

[Revel 10]

So let's put this on the table now shall we;

 

You're quite right - what is in it for them? Easy, Profits.

 

When we got EU grants, did we ever have to the pay them back a dividend on profits etc? Did it leave half of Sheffield belonging to the EU? The EU, essentially took money from the Govt. then redistributed it to places like Sheffield which the Govt would otherwise have never concentrated investment on, if left to their own devices. Once we've left the EU, you can be sure we won't see that anymore. Instead we'll be relying on this type of investment.

 

But the trouble with that is, I think we can be sure that the Chinese will expect a bit more of a fiscal return on their investment than the EU ever did.

 

Oh, and these deals have been in the works for 18 months, which means they were a possibility before Brexit was ever a thing; we could have had our cake and eaten too!

 

(MrBloke - realise this post sounds like I'm having a go at you - I am not! Just picking up on your point)

 

Yes, you speak the truth. EU grants are given with no string attached. But let's look at the figures a little more closely...

 

"The UK sent £12.9bn to the European Union in 2015.

As a very rough calculation, when you divide the UK's overall payment by the number of taxpayers in the region, Yorkshire and the Humber contributed about £1bn towards that overall amount.

In comparison, the Yorkshire and Humber received £747m (979m euros) in funding from the EU between 2007 and 2013, according to the Sheffield Political Economy Research Institute (SPERI)."

 

From this report, we can gather:

 

1. Yorkshire sends £1BN to the EU each year (on average)

2. Yorkshire recieves £747M back every six years on average (£124M a year)

3. Sheffield received only £155M of that total funding, while Leeds received £300M

4. Divide that £155M between six, and that's £25M of EU funding to Sheffield each year (on average)

5. Let's assume that as the second-biggest city in Yorkshire, Sheffield contributes £300M of that £1BN each year, Leeds £400M, and the rest of Yorkshire £300M.

6. When you compare that £300M going out of Sheffield annually, the £25M coming back in annually looks measly

7. Yes, the jobs created by the EU are great but they certainly do not make up for the missing £275M

 

Meanwhile, we have just been handed £1BN on a plate... £200M+ of it in just a couple of years.

 

Anyway, this is not about EU investments being better than other investments, or vice versa. In an ideal world, we'd have both.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36420415

[Hogg 10]

Very good news. Love seeing all those well behaved Chinese students around Sheffield - maybe some of their 'soft power' has contributed to this investment.

[apelike 10]

Yes, you speak the truth. EU grants are given with no string attached.

 

Not sure if that is true as I though the main part of the EU funding for the failed digital region project has to be paid back.

[Mr Bloke 1,445]

I'll just leave this quote here (taken from here)...

 

The city has recently signed co-operation trade agreements with Daqing, the leading centre for the oil and gas industry in China and location of a major World Snooker International Championship, and the city of Nanchang.

 

... for the benefit of any conspiracy theorists out there!

[AndrewC 307]

Yes, you speak the truth. EU grants are given with no string attached. But let's look at the figures a little more closely...

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-36420415

 

That report admits the figures are rough and they're disputed anyway.

 

And secondly, without opening the full Brexit pandoras box, there is obviously much more to the pro-EU argument than just money. But anyway...

 

 

7. Yes, the jobs created by the EU are great but they certainly do not make up for the missing £275M

 

Is that just taking in to account jobs directly funded by the EU, or the wider picture, i.e. the large section of our economy which is indirectly supported by those EU jobs & funding, and will take a major hit when the brain-drain begins from this country?

 

 

Meanwhile, we have just been handed £1BN on a plate

 

But I think the point people are trying to make here is, 'No, we haven't!'. There's a catch with this investment. I don't know what it is yet, but there will be one. It might be one which is overcome by wise investment, but do you trust our council to do that?

 

 

Anyway, this is not about EU investments being better than other investments, or vice versa. In an ideal world, we'd have both.

 

You mean like a world where we were in the EU and had these kind of trade deals anyway? You mean like, how we were up to the 22nd June? Cameron & Osborne have been pushing for bigger ties with China for years now, it was supposed to be a main driver of the Northern Powerhouse. Talks on this deal have been going on for 18 months. You think China only just picked up the phone 4 weeks ago

 

 

Just to counter-act the cynicism, I would say that away from the Brexit debate, I welcome this investment, generally, so long as it is spent wisely for maximum gain, and not frittered away on the wrong things. I also hope there are no silly agreements lurking in the detail that the council are keeping from us.

 

If successful, I'd have no problem welcoming more investment from China and others, and hope we really can find a way to get a better deal from the rest of the world financially than we did from the EU.

[euroout23 10]

this is great news for SCC they will of course take the credit, but its also great for business here the Chinese community enrich and contribute vast amounts already and are welcomed at least they bring something here and take very little.

the Chinese have been investing here for a good few years now privately and corporately developing unwanted and run down flats complexes at Netherthorpe and are building a new development of retail and leisure at the bottom of Bramhall lane.

now we are out of Europe i hope there will be more of this far east investment.

[foxy lady 10]

No surprise, I predicted this last year. Sheffield/china are growing friendly intimate relations.

 

---------- Post added 21-07-2016 at 08:53 ----------

 

 

What is in it for you?

 

Maybe Sheffield will become a live buzzing business centre again, these Chinese know how to do it.

 

I've been to the University graduation ceremony today. You could be excused for assuming that we were at Beijing University. Judging by the students here. This is very much a Chinese home from home.