Have the Conservatives fixed our country?

[LeMaquis 10]

Shipman happened early on Labour's watch.......

 

The Shipman Enquiry concluded that he killed at least 250 people between 1971 and 1998. Twenty two of those twenty seven years were under Tory governments.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1482136/Shipman-began-killing-spree-in-1971.html

[Jim Graham 10]

'A licence to practice is a licence to kill' is a baseless and risible abstraction. It is the seething rhetoric of someone who has an axe to grind.

 

It is clear from the blurb of your book that you have had a bad experience. This is not indicative of the lack of care across the board of those that work within the NHS and Social Services.

 

The Telegraph article you posted speaks of an increased will of patients to complain, of a billion pounds being spent on compensation and of ambulance chasing lawyers. If I wanted to make the argument you are making I would not have chosen that article because it doesn't back up the inflammatory comment you sign off your post with. Not one jot.

 

I am not suggesting doctors set out to kill patients. I merely point out that when the worst happens the doctors are not held to account. There is a set of procedures designed to ensure enough doubt can be cast on the doctors actions to exonerate them.

 

Taking out a healthy kidney and leaving the cancerous one in place is as good as a death sentence for the unfortunate patient. Yet it happens all too often. Blood clots left behind after surgery can be a death sentence or, at best, leave life changing consequences, and a big bill for taxpayers in follow up NHS care. It's not the doctors that pay.

 

1,400 Mid Staffs patients had 'a bad experience' of the NHS - they died. Another 13,000 had 'a bad experience' of the NHS according to the Keogh report. Many of those also died. My own NICE committee admitted that 30,000 patients a year had 'a bad experience' of the NHS. And 25,000 a year still have 'a bad experience' of the NHS through blood clots alone.

 

I'm sorry you have had your ideals of a perfect NHS challenged, but the truth is there, and, of course, you are free to ignore it, as many do. And why shouldn't patients complain if they have been mistreated? Are they, like you (and doctors), supposed to believe the NHS is untouchable?

 

Oh dear. Here is today's medical success story. Another £2 million out of the NHS budget. Curse those ambulance chasing lawyers.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-3733109/Spinal-injuries-carer-warned-doctors-not-epidural-hip-op-wins-2m-payout-NHS-left-paralysed.html

Edited August 10, 2016 by Jim Graham

[Revel 10]

If dividing the country is fixing it, then yes.

[Santo 10]

I am not suggesting doctors set out to kill patients. I merely point out that when the worst happens the doctors are not held to account. There is a set of procedures designed to ensure enough doubt can be cast on the doctors actions to exonerate them.

 

You wrote 'a licence to practice is a licence to kill.' If that doesn't mean you think doctors set out to kill patients perhaps you should rein in your rhetorical histrionics because it sure does to me. You also mentioned Harold Shipman for no real reason relevant to this debate whatever. He was but one man.

 

Taking out a healthy kidney and leaving the cancerous one in place is as good as a death sentence for the unfortunate patient.

 

It's also an obvious mistake. How many times does this happen, say, per 1000 operations? How does that compare to say, the USA, Canada, Germany, France? How often is all too often? Really?

 

Blood clots left behind after surgery can be a death sentence or, at best, leave life changing consequences, and a big bill for taxpayers in follow up NHS care. It's not the doctors that pay.

 

Who does pay then? Do you deny doctors get struck off for malpractice?

 

1,400 Mid Staffs patients had 'a bad experience' of the NHS - they died. Another 13,000 had 'a bad experience' of the NHS according to the Keogh report. Many of those also died. My own NICE committee admitted that 30,000 patients a year had 'a bad experience' of the NHS. And 25,000 a year still have 'a bad experience' of the NHS through blood clots alone.

 

Again, how do we compare to other developed countris. Are we better or worse? Please provide the evidence.

 

I'm sorry you have had your ideals of a perfect NHS challenged

 

If you can point me to where I said the NHS was perfect I will sing Carmen on the roof of City Hall.

 

but the truth is there, and, of course, you are free to ignore it, as many do. And why shouldn't patients complain if they have been mistreated? Are they, like you (and doctors), supposed to believe the NHS is untouchable?

 

If you can point to where I said doctors should be untouchable I will do an encore of Carmen, naked.

 

Doctors are sued and struck off all the time. The article you posted before contains the details of the amount of compensation paid out by the NHS. That, last time I checked, was accountability.

 

It also shows the number of complaints has risen, with a Tory PM at the helm.

 

It's amusing that you write 'bad experience' like that. Notice I didn't and I only used that phrase in relation to your case, on which I assume your slender tome is based? Though it's difficult to tell from the way you write, you aren't dead, are you?

Edited August 10, 2016 by Santo

[truman 10]

If dividing the country is fixing it, then yes.

 

When has it never been divided? It's nothing new....

[Jim Graham 10]

You wrote 'a licence to practice is a licence to kill.' If that doesn't mean you think doctors set out to kill patients perhaps you should rein in your rhetorical histrionics because it sure does to me. You also mentioned Harold Shipman for no real reason relevant to this debate whatever. He was but one man.

 

 

 

It's also an obvious mistake. How many times does this happen, say, per 1000 operations? How does that compare to say, the USA, Canada, Germany, France? How often is all too often? Really?

 

 

 

Who does pay then? Do you deny doctors get struck off for malpractice?

 

 

 

Again, how do we compare to other developed countris. Are we better or worse? Please provide the evidence.

 

 

 

If you can point me to where I said the NHS was perfect I will sing Carmen on the roof of City Hall.

 

 

 

If you can point to where I said doctors should be untouchable I will do an encore of Carmen, naked.

 

Doctors are sued and struck off all the time. The article you posted before contains the details of the amount of compensation paid out by the NHS. That, last time I checked, was accountability.

 

It also shows the number of complaints has risen, with a Tory PM at the helm.

 

It's amusing that you write 'bad experience' like that. Notice I didn't and I only used that phrase in relation to your case, on which I assume your slender tome is based? Though it's difficult to tell from the way you write, you aren't dead, are you?

 

You rather undermine your weak arguments by resorting to pedantry and personal abuse. It's no surprise on SF.

 

The title of the thread is: Have the Conservatives fixed our country? And some commentators have jumped in and lazily and predictably claimed that the Tories are ruining the NHS. I contend, and have evidenced, that the NHS does a pretty good job in ruining itself. There is plenty more evidence out there. Only yesterday I was reading of a finance director in the NHS paying himself £47,500 a MONTH (£570,000 a year). He is not alone. And we could also get into the PFI deals bleeding the NHS dry or the absurd cost of pensions for NHS staff also taking a big chunk of the NHS budget.

 

But the biggest cause of 'ruining' of the NHS is the British people. The British people wilfully refuse to take good care of themselves and take a free health service for granted, and abuse it mercilessly. Almost two-thirds of Britons are now classed as obese and that massively increases their risk of diabetes, heart disease, cancer, stroke, and many other conditions. Then there are two million visits every year to A&E by people misusing alcohol. All of which leaves the NHS to pick up the bill for what amounts to poor lifestyle choices.

 

The NHS was set up to reduce the terrible toll of diseases such as TB, and to provide safe, affordable medicines for everyday complaints. It has been a great success. But it never was and never should be a backstop for a lazy self-indulgent population dying of stupidity through their own self-neglect. Every penny spent on an obese diabetic is a penny that cannot be spent on care for those who are in need through no fault of their own.

 

It's very easy to trot out lazy rhetoric about how 'it's all the government's fault'. Some of what is wrong with this country may be the government's fault. But when it comes to the NHS much of what is wrong with it is entirely self-inflicted.

Edited August 11, 2016 by Jim Graham

[El Cid 220]

 

It's very easy to trot out lazy rhetoric about how 'it's all the government's fault'. Some of what is wrong with this country may be the government's fault. But when it comes to the NHS much of what is wrong with it is entirely self-inflicted.

 

Professor Robert Winston was on BBC Newsnight last night, saying that the causes of things like the crisis-hit hospital trust may close Grantham A&E at night, is down to it not being possible in some areas to get a GP appointment for 3 weeks.

It really is quite serious, and it cannot be blamed on Labout, he was saying the Hunt is just playing at politics instead of trying to solve this very serious issue.

[Guest]

Professor Robert Winston was on BBC Newsnight last night, saying that the causes of things like the crisis-hit hospital trust may close Grantham A&E at night, is down to it not being possible in some areas to get a GP appointment for 3 weeks.

It really is quite serious, and it cannot be blamed on Labout, he was saying the Hunt is just playing at politics instead of trying to solve this very serious issue.

 

Didn't the Labour government allow GP's to opt out of nights and weekends if they wanted to, leading to many of them doing so? is this opt out still in place? genuine questions because I'm not sure.

[El Cid 220]

Didn't the Labour government allow GP's to opt out of nights and weekends if they wanted to, leading to many of them doing so? is this opt out still in place? genuine questions because I'm not sure.

 

In the last Parliament David Cameron announced plans to ensure seven-day GP access, so I guess that is no longer an issue?

[Guest]

In the last Parliament David Cameron announced plans to ensure seven-day GP access, so I guess that is no longer an issue?

 

So recently announced plans, but not yet fully implemented?

 

I suspect allowing GP's to opt out of evenings and weekends, (along with mass scale immigration) is a massive factor of today's problems with GP's surgeries and A&E departments.

[El Cid 220]

So recently announced plans, but not yet fully implemented?

 

I suspect allowing GP's to opt out of evenings and weekends, (along with mass scale immigration) is a massive factor of today's problems with GP's surgeries and A&E departments.

 

Hunt seems more worried about a 7 day NHS, which we already have, and we dont have the money/doctors to broaden.

[Guest]

Hunt seems more worried about a 7 day NHS, which we already have, and we dont have the money/doctors to broaden.

 

It has been a 6 years since I've had to use the NHS, but back then it didn't seem like a 7 day NHS. I don't recall any of the scans and various tests that had to be done over a period of time ever being on a Saturday or a sunday, or even in the evening.