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What do people think of the Lecturers' industrial action?

Do you think Lecturers industrial action is justified?  

79 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you think Lecturers industrial action is justified?

    • Yes
      39
    • No
      40


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(Time of message 8.30am)

 

Poor baby, my heart bleeds for you...

 

How incredibly hypocritocal of you. How can you be busy at work if you have time to read & post on an internet forum? Maybe you should spend less time moaning on the internet about how overworked you are and more time working...

 

EVERYBODY thinks they are under paid & over worked. I attend Sheffield Hallam University part time (one day a week) and work from 7.30/8am til 6pm the rest of the week. The quality of teaching at Hallam is, in my experience, generally very poor. In addition to this, many lecturers are unavaliable, do not return messages and ignore emails. It often takes months to recieve marked work back and the feedback is usually so limited it's less than useless. I have no sympathy for their 'plight'; academia has always been relatively low paid compared to industry. You know this before entering the proffession.

 

Stop moaning and do some bloody work.

 

Not that I should have to justify it, but I was tied to a desk sitting by my phone as I have had to for half an hour every morning this week to see if I was called over to cover invigilation for the other staff who are taking part in the industrial action. I'm not moaning about how overworked I am, but trying to illustrate the point that we do not sit around drinking coffee all day, only work the hours on our timetable, and get 4 months holiday as some people seem to think.

 

We have to retun work to students within 28 days so it doesn't take months to get back, and give very detailed feedback.

 

Yes academia has always been low paid in comparison to industry and we are aware of that, but we aren't asking for our salaries to be brought in line with other professions. We were used by the government in their implementation of higher tuition fees and just want what we were promised.

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Is 'we' Hallam or Sheffield uni? You may have to give work back within 28 days but that doesn' necessarily mean it happens does it? The longest I have waited for a mark & feedback on an assignment is over 3 months, & that was after numerous emails requesting it. There are some assignments I have never recieved a mark or feedback for, just got an overall mark for the module. Does the sole comment 'a good assignment' or 'good' constitute detailed feedback? Because that's an example of the 'feedback' I have received. I can only think of one lecturer on my course who gives detailed, constructive feedback that enables you to improve the standard of your work.

 

So what were you promised? What do you want?

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I must say that when I was at Hallam all my assignments had good feedback including comments and recommentions all the way through the text. I found the Engineering Department exceptional. Being a part-time student, the lecturers did their best to accomodate me and my needs. It was some of the full time students who needed a kick up the backside. Handing in assignments late and generally being curmudgeonly.

 

As for the comments about the strike. As when we had the bus strike, people bitch about the strikes, if it affects them. Let's face it, a strike that hits no one is not worth doing.

 

As I have said before, no one goes on strike for money. They go on strike to defend a principle.

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They get fairly well paid for what is essentially part time work (if that). I don't understand what they're moaning about, but that's the teaching profession all over. Months and months of holidays, part time hours, full time pay, and they're still not happy.

 

Lecturers have to do many non-teaching activities such as research, refereeing journal papers, serving on committess running activities on experiments etc etc. It is not part time work (at least in the science departments, cant speak for arts or "newer" subjects).

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Is 'we' Hallam or Sheffield uni? You may have to give work back within 28 days but that doesn' necessarily mean it happens does it? The longest I have waited for a mark & feedback on an assignment is over 3 months, & that was after numerous emails requesting it. There are some assignments I have never recieved a mark or feedback for, just got an overall mark for the module. Does the sole comment 'a good assignment' or 'good' constitute detailed feedback? Because that's an example of the 'feedback' I have received. I can only think of one lecturer on my course who gives detailed, constructive feedback that enables you to improve the standard of your work.

 

So what were you promised? What do you want?

I no longer work in Sheffield and don't want to say where I do. Our work is always returned to students within 28 days unless it is submitted just before a holiday. Our department's policy is to return the assignments themselves with corrections and feedback written on them, or with dedicated feedback sheets attached. Other departments and obviously universities will vary as to what feedback they give.

 

It is extremely difficult to return assignments quickly with detailed feedback when you have 150 students submitting two pieces of work each for that unit, but it is what I endeavor to do.

 

If you want to know what the strike is about read earlier posts on this thread, another thread that was written about this some time ago, or the website of one of the unions.

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I am a final year student, i haven't had any marks back for ages and will do my final exams without having a clue how well (or poorly) i am doing.

 

I really can't see what all the fuss is about, the action means that i cant be complacent about any of my modules and will have to work extra hard if i want to get a good degree. Which is what i should be doing anyway.

 

I went for a job interview the other day with a huge graduate employer. When i asked them about the lecturers strike they didn't have a clue about it and said that even if i dont graduate this year they will still give me the job because they were impressed with my interviews and other assessments, grades are only a small factor when it comes to finding the right person for the job.

 

The lecturers have every right in the world to strike and i support them. My friends who don't think it is a good idea are just the type of people who enjoy a good moan and a bit of contriversy for a while. Eventually exams will be set and grades will be recieved, no one will loose out in the long run. Success in exams and coursework needs good time planning and management skills, so that work can be learnt/done in good time. Students should put these skill sinto force to cope with this situation and try and work it to their advantage instead of moaning about it.

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I realise that the teaching timetable is only part of the job, but it's still an indicator of how much preparation, admin, etc needs doing as it shows how many tutor groups they have. Also, lecturers and teachers can, and do, use the same course material for several consecutive years. June to September is relaxation time. I don't resent them though - lucky them, I'd love to have 3 - 4 months off every year.

 

Haha, do you realise how often the government change the way they have to teach? That used to be the case 20/30 years ago but it certainly isn't now.

 

After reading your comments on here you're pretty much the stereotypical 'teachers have loads of holidays and do no work' person I see all the time.

 

Throughout school and into uni my friends always said I should become a teacher because I love helping people out and teaching stuff. You want to know why I didn't become a teacher or a lecturer? Because I actually know what's involved. My mother is a teacher and my father has moved from teaching into lecturing. Teaching isn't fun anymore. It's no longer about enjoying teaching kids and students and watching them learn. It's about paperwork and planning every single lesson for every day of the week.

 

Right let's take my job now, I work 37.5hrs a week, I have flexi-time, 25 days a year hols + between Christmas and new year. That works out at more time than any teacher I know. Do you honestly think teachers/lecturers do nothing for the holidays? I think before she went part time my mum's day started by leaving for work (10 mins drive) at 7.30am and came home at around 6pm, then have tea then on with work between say 7pm and 9pm.....pretty much every night.

 

I also just remembered the bit about having to be a social worker as well. Have you ever been punched and threatened at work by those you're supposed to be helping? Another friend of mine who's a teacher had a pupil say that he abused her! Just for fun.

 

I really do dispair of ignorant people like you. Go be a teacher for a year, including all the training then come back and tell us all it's so easy.

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I attend Sheffield Hallam University part time (one day a week) and work from 7.30/8am til 6pm the rest of the week. The quality of teaching at Hallam is, in my experience, generally very poor..

 

I also attend Sheffield Hallam University and in my experience the standard of lecurers is very mixed. We have some excellent lecturers of a very high standard who clearly put loads of work in and who try very hard for their students. On the other hand, we also have the odd lecturer whose level of basic English is far below mine - and is far below the level that we have to attain to get decent grades, and who really don't seem to give a damn about the students. One piece of work that we were supposed to study, online, and then be tested on, was out of date and so badly composed and written that it looked like a copy n' paste effort thrown together by an 11-year-old in a hurry. I complained about it, thinking it was a previous student's effort, and it turned out to have been done by a lecturer. It should have been whipped off the intranet and corrected by a member of the English department (or, by anyone with basic literacy) but as far as I can tell, it's going to be left up there for next year's students to study from.

 

That's the problem, IMO. The bad lecturers are able to continue. There seems to be no standard set which enables the university to get rid of the bad 'uns. Or, maybe, the university just doesn't care. Get the money in! :mad:

 

It's not fair, because it reflects on the good ones. And it lets down the students.

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I also attend Sheffield Hallam University and in my experience the standard of lecurers is very mixed. We have some excellent lecturers of a very high standard who clearly put loads of work in and who try very hard for their students. On the other hand, we also have the odd lecturer whose level of basic English is far below mine - and is far below the level that we have to attain to get decent grades, and who really don't seem to give a damn about the students. One piece of work that we were supposed to study, online, and then be tested on, was out of date and so badly composed and written that it looked like a copy n' paste effort thrown together by an 11-year-old in a hurry. I complained about it, thinking it was a previous student's effort, and it turned out to have been done by a lecturer. It should have been whipped off the intranet and corrected by a member of the English department (or, by anyone with basic literacy) but as far as I can tell, it's going to be left up there for next year's students to study from.

 

That's the problem, IMO. The bad lecturers are able to continue. There seems to be no standard set which enables the university to get rid of the bad 'uns. Or, maybe, the university just doesn't care. Get the money in! :mad:

 

It's not fair, because it reflects on the good ones. And it lets down the students.

 

Its the unis fault. They wont fire people for bad teaching, but will fire if your research is not good enough. Also they need more permanent staff instead of forcing researchers to teach thereby doing two jobs for one pay packet basically.

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Its the unis fault. They wont fire people for bad teaching, but will fire if your research is not good enough. Also they need more permanent staff instead of forcing researchers to teach thereby doing two jobs for one pay packet basically.

 

The uni seems to operate differently to the commercial establishments that I'm accustomed to. There was an issue with a lecturer who was widely perceived as performing under par this year (possibly for health reasons), and yet, despite this fact being widely acknowledged, 'the uni' needed to wait for a student to put in an official Student Complaint Form before they could investigate.

 

To me, from a commercial background, this seems bizarre. Usually, one has a line-manager, who has man-management responsibility, who has responsibility - and power - to check on and maintain the standard of work of those underneath him or her. This seems to be different in the academic world.

 

Apparently, the powers that be in the uni are concerned about potential claims of victimisation etc. Anyone any comments about this?

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I think part of the problem SHsheff is that teaching makes up relatively little of a lecturers time. Fact is, i know lots of lecturers, and some are fantastic and enthusiastic teachers, and some are pretty lousy, but all of that means nothing to a university - what matters is "Do they bring in the research funding, Do they publish original research". That really is all that matters careerwise for a lecturer. Very Sad. Oh of course there are assessments of teaching quality etc., and drives to improve it, but its not the bottom line. Thats been my perception anyway.

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I'm not sure that suing the university will work. this is the response we got in relation to our fees.

SNIP

 

Funny, I don't remember seeing the T&Cs when I first enrolled.

 

It is exacly this attitude that has prompted Oxford to insist on students entering into a contract at the start of their studies.

 

BTW lecturer pay is terrible and the hours are long: think 10 hours prep time for each lecture. In the sciences it's worse because your slides have to be up to date (as in current with the literature... much more difficult with medline available to all). Six years of study to become a lecturer and you're on 25k. That's less than an 18 yr old PA with jack qualifications gets in London.

 

And it gets better... because there's no such thing as tenure, you're on a limited term contract too.

 

It's enough to make you wish you had got a 2:2 instead of a first / 2:1 and had been forced to go into teaching instead.

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