What do people think of the Lecturers' industrial action?

[holster5 10]

All i'll say basically is - Not happy! I can't imagine what most 3rd years feel like! All it makes me and my friends think is: 'so this is what our tutition fees go on then?!' we're still having to meet deadlines and they give us our marks when the university gets its arse in gear. What we couldn't understand is our students union saying that we should support the lecturers

 

Think of the bigger picture rather than thinking about everything from your own point of view! We (I am a final year student) SHOULD support the lecturers. If you get into a situation where you are fighting for something you are entitled to but have been denied, you'll be counting on those around you to think about your position.. not just selfishly how it affects them:rolleyes:

[holster5 10]

oops.. duplicate message

[babychickens 10]

The cost for this is far too high. We're talking about students' education here, and striking at exam-marking time to maximise impact is just pure spite. This has nothing to do with the students, so they shouldn't be punished for it.

 

I'm now a university postdoctoral researcher who'll probably be a lecturer one day. During my undergraduate degree this exact same thing happened, where my tutor delayed marking our exam papers because he was taking industrial action. I can still remember clearly how frustrated this made me feel, and it's not right that so many students should suffer in the same way.

 

The cynical choice by the union of such an important time for this action makes them look very bad IMO.

 

 

I'm also a postdoc, and I agree that this really is desperately unfair for the students at this time of year, and I'm sorry that this action short of a strike is still continuing. However, I would like it noted that the action started at the beginning of March - and the universities had plenty of warnings and notice taht it would happen if talks didn't take place - and yet the universities (not just sheffield) still failed to bother with talks or reasonable offers, and instead went for teh approach of sending out misinformation (thanks, rosie valerio and bob boucher) and other manipulative nonsense in the hope that university staff would believe it or be intimidated and not cause a fuss. If the universities actually committed the third of student fees to staff salaries that they said they would when the fees came into place, this problem wouldn't be happening. The university's argument seems to be that they've invested n amount in implementing a new staff pay scheme and that this goes above and beyond the amount of extra income generated from teh fees, so academic staff are whinging about nothing. This really isn't the point, though - the third of fees were meant to go to staff salaries, not several years of market research (started at least a year before this 'one third to salaries in exchange for increased fees' thing began, and necessary because of the gross inconsistencies and outdated nature of the university's pay system) and administrative costs. Most staff did receive a small increase in salary due to the new pay system, yes, but it has been suggested that their contracts will have to be shortened to cover the costs - i don't think the university has finalised what they're going to do about this yet though. Also, the increments on the new pay spine are smaller, so it'll take 1-2 years longer to get to approx the same salary as it would have done on the old pay scale. Anyway, that whinge aside, surely the university is at fault, not the academic staff? If the staff have been pushed so far that they're taking part in industrial action just so that the university takes them seriously - and lets be honest, academics aren't usually the most greedy people in the world - and the university thinks it's OK to pretty much ignore them, what does that say about the attitude of the university management to the quality of teaching and research? What students seem to forget is that the university is basically a research business.

 

I really think the problems are due to the business-like way the university is run - academics aren't usually particularly business-minded and are frequently walked over by the people that effectively run the university. I think what sums it up best for me is that the university justifies the massive increases in salaries paid to senior management staff by saying taht they need to do this to attract and retain high callibre candidates. Apparently this doesn't apply to academic or academic related staff though.

 

oh, and to whoever it is that thinks lecturers get 3-4 months off per year - yeah, whatever. No, that's not how it works - lecturers teach, but they also have labs/research to do, grants to apply for, courses to plan, seminars to give, students to supervise, postdocs to supervise, meetings to go to, papers to write, weekends are often worked through, AND they often have families to work around. 3-4 months off per year? no, perhaps a couple of weeks at best.

[Lib1 10]

Excellent post babychickens.

 

The Universities org, UCEA, had the opportunity to meet with the the University and FE staff unions (AUT and NATFHE) on Tuesday this week (25th April). The UCEA refused to meet with the unions AGAIN prolonging the strike action even further!!!.

 

In this news item from the AUT, it suggests that the UCEA is aware that their pevious pay 'offer' of 6% (3% this year and 3% next year) was inadequate: http://www.aut.org.uk/index.cfm?articleid=1624

 

Another point to remember is that alhough the spotlight is on lecturers pay, research staff and academic related staff are also underpaid (we earn nothing near the £30,000+ that lecturers are paid and work right through the summer holidays!) and stand a chance to see well deserved pay rises as a result of the 'short of a strike' industrial action. The AUT covers researchers and academic-related staff too- many of my colleagues are taking part in the strike action.

[babychickens 10]

All i'll say basically is - Not happy! I can't imagine what most 3rd years feel like! All it makes me and my friends think is: 'so this is what our tutition fees go on then?!' we're still having to meet deadlines and they give us our marks when the university gets its arse in gear. What we couldn't understand is our students union saying that we should support the lecturers

 

I think maybe students aren't aware enough that lecturers/academics/academic related staff are employed by the university, while the university management are the policy makers. The university is basically run as a business - no revenue, no university. The primary concern of the university management is to generate revenue - largely through research and related patents/developments etc, but also through attracting and teaching students. Research and teaching both require lecturers and their research groups - all of whom could be taking part in the action short of a strike. The reason? The university management are trying to maximise the revenue by 'exploiting' (hesitate to use this word, but it is true) the academic/teaching staff - keeping their salaries as low as possible and refusing to increase them to reasonable levels, whilst at the same time squeezing as much research and teaching revenue from them as possible. My point here is taht yes - you should support your lecturers, they are only asking for fair treatment in the long term - it is the university management who deserve your disliking and who you should blame for the current situation. If they listened to what the unions were asking for before christmas, this situation may never have arisen. Instead the universities' management (embodied by the UCEA) refuse to even talk to the unions, and when they do they offer offensively small amounts.

 

Again, yes, it is rubbish for the students, and my guess is that there are very few lecturers who are anything other than unhappy about the action taking place, but they've only been pushed this far because the university fails to treat its academic employees decently. If the university didn't squeeze us for everything they can without paying us more, then this wouldn't have happened. This is our whole working lives (which for most of us includes evenings and weekends), whereas it's just a few months for you, and you'll get your degree even if it is a few months late. Your tuition fees haven't been wasted, but your graduation may be delayed. I don't imagine it makes a huge difference to your job prospects as many of the other graduates this year from other universities will be in the same situation.

 

Please support your lecturers - you probably have some that you really hate and haven't enjoyed being taught by, but perhaps if you knew what sort of pressure the university puts on them (often teaching subjects that are only vaguely linked to their research, and usually with no teaching experience - the university would probably have to pay them more if they were qualified as teachers, as well as constantly demanding research publications) you'd understand that they're often miserable, stressed, and very much underappreciated and unrewarded. They may be your lecturers, but they are also people.

[babychickens 10]

Lecturing is surely a vocation chosen by a those with a desire to teach and research. Most lecturers I know greatly enjoy their jobs as they are essentially doing what they love and getting paid for it. Some of them are as disgusted as I am at this current action.

 

There are plenty of better paid jobs out there and there always have been. If you're not getting paid enough in any job, you surely find a job that pays the money that you think that you're worth.

 

This isn't the case for lecturers: They won't leave because they enjoy their jobs, but want to get paid more for it. They've been guaranteed an above inflation rise for the next 2 years, most private sector workers would be thrilled with this.

 

We sneer and joke every time the French go on strike. Why should the lecturers expect anything but public disapproval when they resort to the same, dated way of trying to resolve things.

 

most private sector workers are paid more to start with, many lecturers and academics can't leave their jobs for private sector work because there isn't any in their field of expertise, and retraining as something else isn't exactly appealing (i'm a minor example - i left university 7 years ago, worked very hard at a phd - yes, some people do - and now work as a postdoc, but if i jump ship i'm basically as qualified as someone direct from university except that i have 7 years of hard work and knowledge to my name. do i want my salary to drop to that of someone 7 years my junior? do i want to retrain? no, i would rather the university showed their appreciation for what i can do by paying me properly for what i do). saying that some of the lecturers you know are as disgusted at the situation as you are doens't mean they don't feel undervalued or underpaid, just that they don't the principle of action short of a strike.

 

also, we don't all sneer and joke when the french go on strike - some of us choose to find out the reason why they're on strike, and sometimes, just sometimes, support the move.

 

maybe you should consider the underlying cause of teh strike rather than just direct all your anger at the lecturers. perhaps there is a reason why people have been put in this position?

[SHsheff 10]

The govt said higher fees were going to go towards paying lectuers more - and they haven't. Basically the action is about a promise that was not fulfilled...

 

As I understand it from the flier I was handed on the industrial action day, this is the crux of the argument. In which case, arguing about whether or not lecturers deserve or don't deserve the pay they get is irrelevant.

 

PS Will someone 'in the know' come right out and and say exactly how many days' holiday a lecturer is contracted to receive?

[SHsheff 10]

On a different subject, we've had lectures missed out because the lecturer was apparently teaching business people on behalf of the university. I'm not sure THAT bit is in our 'learning contract' (or whatever they call it).

 

I suspect it's dishonest - his time is being paid for twice. Once by the students, once by the business people. I'd like a refund for those lectures that I've paid for but didn't receive! (one lecture and one seminar, to be accurate.)

[Lib1 10]

Lecturing staff (as well as research and academic-related staff) at Uni of Shef are entitled to:

 

Annual Leave: 30 days, plus 3 closure days, plus 8 Bank Holidays.

 

Not quite 3-4 months off per year is it?

[SHsheff 10]

Lecturing staff (as well as research and academic-related staff) at Uni of Shef are entitled to:

 

Annual Leave: 30 days, plus 3 closure days, plus 8 Bank Holidays.

 

Not quite 3-4 months off per year is it?

 

No, it's not. And puts a different perspective to some of the views above. Thank you for setting the record straight.

[Lib1 10]

In addition- have a look at a typical job role of a lecturer [you will need to scroll through all the introductory info about the Uni and the dept to pg 8]

http://www.shef.ac.uk/jobs/fps/R3895.doc

 

For those of you of the 'lazy lecturers' school of thought, on the basis of this job description, are you really telling me that the work expected from the advertised post and the qualifications/experience needed aren't worth a good salary...?

[LordChaverly 10]

Lecturing staff (as well as research and academic-related staff) at Uni of Shef are entitled to:

 

Annual Leave: 30 days, plus 3 closure days, plus 8 Bank Holidays.

 

Not quite 3-4 months off per year is it?

 

And much of this annual leave will be taken up by research and by catching up with marking, as the partners of lecturers will know only too well.