Naz Shah suspended from Parliament for anti Jewish rants.

[blake 10]

Mann had a go at Livingstone, not because he is right wing and Livingstone is not, but because he is one of the MP's most involved in combating antisemitism - and he has been for years.

[Zamo 10]

Interesting isn't it how the right wing media including elements n the BBC are in full cry in highlighting any apparent division within The Labour Party. KEn Livingstone is under fire but the real target is Jeremy Corbyn. John Mann's behaviour in front of the media continually shouting at Ken L accusing him of a being a Nazi " apologist" looked so stage managed it was unbelievable. Mann never misses an opportunity to attack Corbyn in the written press or on TV.

Meanwhile Dodgy Dave and Zac Goldsmith slip under the radar. Dave's monumental error in supporting Nicolas Sarkozy's destruction of Libya seems to have been forgotten.

 

The Guardian and the Mirror are equally critical of Labour.

 

The problem with those on the Left is that they have developed a culture of self-flagellation over the last 20-30 years and it is no long anti-racist but anti-white. The tiny country of Israel is, comparatively, a shining beacon of functionality and tolerance in the Middle East yet it is singled out by the Left who criticise it relentlessly and advocate boycotting its' goods to punish its' people.

 

So perverse is the thinking of those on the Left that they meanwhile turn a blind eye to the discrimination and intolerance taught by the followers of Islam because its' followers are predominantly non-white. Suppress women... ignore. Regard homosexuals as criminals... ignore. Teach children that their god will burn non-Muslims in hell for eternity... ignore. Mass sexual exploitation of young, white, non-Muslim girls... ignore. FGM... ignore. Forced marriages... ignore. Extremism and terrorism... ignore. It's all "yeah but...", "what about..." and "it's not all of them".

 

The Labour party is riddled with Left wing extremists whose views are perverse, unprincipled and void of any objectivity. Sad times.

[geared 316]

It's a bad time for British politics at the moment. We have a run away right wing government that can do what it likes while Labour is infighting and couldn't find its backside with both hands and the Lib Dems are almost extinct.

 

and lets not forget our third party are a bunch of nationalist lunatics who seem to take any opportunity to cause trouble just to get attention.

[foxy lady 10]

So you think I'm saying that the "right wing media" set up the whole thing ?

 

Not sure how you reach that conclusion. Mann has a bee in his bonnet about Corbyn as do most right wing Labour MP's, indeed the vast majority of the Westminster Labour Party. I don't know how long you've been around foxy lady but Ken Livingstone along with people such as Bernie Grant former MP for Tottenham have been long term hate figures amongst the Daily Mails, Express and the Sun, the Tory Press in fact. Livingstone is a close ally of Corbyn, John Mann knows this so he'll home in on any issue to attack Corbyn and Ken has provided that opportunity. The local elections are next week and if Labour do badly it will damage Corbyn's leadership. Mann must know that the electorate won't support divided parties and he's sticking the boot in on Corbyn at a timely moment to discredit him

In short Mann saw his opportunity and took it

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2016 at 09:46 ----------

 

 

 

HI Gamston, not seen QT yet but I've recorded it. Anyone who has studied politics knows what's going on here. JOhn Mann makes no secret of his dislike of Corbyn, he's the new attack dog of the Labour right now that Simon Danczuk (spelling) is recently discredited. CHukka, Trystan, Liz, Dugher, Mandelson must be loving it

 

Actually my conclusion was if the 2 anti-semites hadn't been anti-semites and devoted their time to that cause then there wouldn't have been anything for the right wing media or John Mann to pick up on.

Are you saying that the left wing media brushed the whole saga under the carpet and didn't mention it?

[Ridgewalk 101]

I'm saying that Mann used the opportunity to grandstand and to score points against Corbyn by attacking one of Corbyns allies thus giving the right wing media a chance to further its constant attacks on Labour.

 

As for talking to Hamas and Hezbollah is it not an adult way of acknowledging that in any dispute there are shades of grey rather than black or white good and bad and any solution to conflict should be explored. As someone once said " jaw jaw is better than war war"

 

Actually people on the right should be careful of being too judgemental. Their big hero Thatcher was a very good friend of that old military dictator Pinochet who was wanted by several govts for murdering their nationals and who violently overthrew a democratically elected govt. Thatcher also described Mandela as a terrorist

 

Foxy Lady why is criticising Israeli foreign and domestic policy, and Zionism anti Semitic ?

 

Interesting that the public is now accepting the right wing narrative of "anti-semitism" in a similar way to how South Yorkshire Police and the right wing press, quickly established the narrative inn1989 that"Liverpool fans were to blame" for the Hillsborough tragedy

[geared 316]

As if by magic another fine moment for Labour in the press this week.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-sussex-36167299

 

Peter Skinner, 56, who was Labour MEP for the South East from 1999 to 2014, was found guilty of three charges after a trial at Southwark Crown Court.

 

He claimed thousands of pounds for support staff, which actually funded jewellery, restaurants and hotel stays.

The politician made fraudulent payments of £10,000 a month to his wife from December 2007 until July 2009.

 

Sentencing Skinner, of Snodland, Kent, the judge said he had abused trust.

[Berberis 10]

element of truth in this. In the four elections of this 21st century, Labour have managed to lose about a third of the ethnic minority type voters that they used to bank on. And the biggest drift, was between 2010-15. Between 2010-15, which was the period of the biggest drift, those missing Labour voters didn't drift towards UKIP, or the LibDems. They went right over, from Labour to the Tories and that is one of the reasons why Cameron got his unexpected majority in the last general election.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/the-4-charts-that-show-labour-may-be-losing-the-ethnic-minority-vote-10274051.html

 

they've all deserted, and gone over from Labour, to varying extents, and even Muslim voters are less likely to vote Labour than before, but the most loyal of the Labour ethnic minority vote Labour used to rely on, is the Muslim vote.

 

Lets face it, Muslim immigrants who come to the UK like any others are looking for a better life. They start on the lower rungs of the socio-economic ladder, they aspire to better themselves and the natural party for these people is Labour. Its a party that claims to help the people on the lower rungs. Now, irrespective of whether or not they do as they claim, Labour's attraction persists. But once people start to acru wealth, their political leanings sway away from the left. The UK's Muslims population is well established and we see 2nd/3rd and 4th generation Muslims who benefit from being born here and have very few of the obstacles as their parents/grandparents generations had with learning the language etc etc. Labour did not lose these voters, they just moved through the political spectrum in the same way non muslims do throughout the country.

 

This is Labour's major problem, they cannot square the circle which is as the people they try to help, progress into the economic groups they aspire to be in, they cease to vote Labour. If Labour had been successful in its aims 100+ years ago, they would not exist today. This is why I suspect Labour is so keen on high volume immigration, they import voters to replace those who have abandoned them.

Edited April 29, 2016 by Berberis

[geared 316]

As for talking to Hamas and Hezbollah is it not an adult way of acknowledging that in any dispute there are shades of grey rather than black or white good and bad and any solution to conflict should be explored. As someone once said " jaw jaw is better than war war"

 

Since both are established political parties then political dialogue should be opened, just as we sat down with Sinn Fein and other NI groups as part of the peace process in Northern Ireland.

 

That job should be sorted by the politicians on both sides over there, not by a British MP getting friendly with one side in the argument of which he has little business being involved in.

 

Foxy Lady why is criticising Israeli foreign and domestic policy, and Zionism anti Semitic ?

 

Criticising government policy is quite different, but you have to pay attention as often people will try and hide their anti-semetic remarks by claiming it's just criticism of the government.

 

---------- Post added 29-04-2016 at 13:16 ----------

 

Labour did not lose these voters, they just moved through the political spectrum in the same way non muslims do throughout the country.

 

This is Labour's major problem, they cannot square the circle which is as the people they try to help, progress into the economic groups they aspire to be in, they cease to vote Labour. If Labour had been successful in its aims 100+ years ago, they would not exist today. This is why I suspect Labour is so keen on high volume immigration, they import voters to replace those who have abandoned them.

 

Labour have failed to properly identify their target voters though, times have moved on.

Factory work now pays pretty decently, no-one is slogging their guts out for minimum wage there.

 

Now the downtrodden and low paid workers are in the service sector, but because it's not well unionised and quite high turnover they don't know or don't want to put much effort into appealing to them.

[Berberis 10]

Now the downtrodden and low paid workers are in the service sector, but because it's not well unionised and quite high turnover they don't know or don't want to put much effort into appealing to them.

 

Ever decreasing circles, but not due to their success, more to do with their inability to reach out to those they should be representing.

[Margarita Ma 10]

The header for this topic is typical of what generally happens in "News".

There is also a huge difference in Anti-Semitism and anti Expansionist-Zionism. Conflating one thing with another is a frequent mistake and also ploy used by parties with a vested interest in a subject.

Read with care labels should be attached to all material.

Listen with care labels should be issued to all those who ask questions(interviewers)

Speak with care labels should be given to all who speak on a subject.

 

Hitler did indeed advocate sending (all) Jews back to Palestine to re establish a Zionist state, this was not meant in a kindly way of aiding poor Jews to a better life but, as enforced deportation. Ken Livingstone is guilty of making a short cut through Hitler's proposals to offer a stark choice to German Jews it was (in my own interpretation) get out or we will get rid. I do believe that Hitler was indeed "Mad" as Livingstone said in the sense that having left home to find work he found destitution and had to resort to sleeping, with many other destitutes not in the gutter but in the sewers to avoid freezing to death. We know that there are noxious gasses produced in sewers, some of these may have had an effect on his brain(still developing as a young man) and also the apparent affluence of some contrasting with the privations of others has a deep psychological efect on anyone in their formative years. compare this to the appeal of IS to younger Muslims who feel isolated and deprived of the more luxurious items available to affluent people now.

[sutty27 10]

The header for this topic is typical of what generally happens in "News".

There is also a huge difference in Anti-Semitism and anti Expansionist-Zionism. Conflating one thing with another is a frequent mistake and also ploy used by parties with a vested interest in a subject.

Read with care labels should be attached to all material.

Listen with care labels should be issued to all those who ask questions(interviewers)

Speak with care labels should be given to all who speak on a subject.

 

Hitler did indeed advocate sending (all) Jews back to Palestine to re establish a Zionist state, this was not meant in a kindly way of aiding poor Jews to a better life but, as enforced deportation. Ken Livingstone is guilty of making a short cut through Hitler's proposals to offer a stark choice to German Jews it was (in my own interpretation) get out or we will get rid. I do believe that Hitler was indeed "Mad" as Livingstone said in the sense that having left home to find work he found destitution and had to resort to sleeping, with many other destitutes not in the gutter but in the sewers to avoid freezing to death. We know that there are noxious gasses produced in sewers, some of these may have had an effect on his brain(still developing as a young man) and also the apparent affluence of some contrasting with the privations of others has a deep psychological efect on anyone in their formative years. compare this to the appeal of IS to younger Muslims who feel isolated and deprived of the more luxurious items available to affluent people now.

 

That would be the Haavara agreement between Nazi Germany and Zionist German Jews signed on 25 August 1933.

[foxy lady 10]

The header for this topic is typical of what generally happens in "News".

There is also a huge difference in Anti-Semitism and anti Expansionist-Zionism. Conflating one thing with another is a frequent mistake and also ploy used by parties with a vested interest in a subject.

Read with care labels should be attached to all material.

Listen with care labels should be issued to all those who ask questions(interviewers)

Speak with care labels should be given to all who speak on a subject.

 

Hitler did indeed advocate sending (all) Jews back to Palestine to re establish a Zionist state, this was not meant in a kindly way of aiding poor Jews to a better life but, as enforced deportation. Ken Livingstone is guilty of making a short cut through Hitler's proposals to offer a stark choice to German Jews it was (in my own interpretation) get out or we will get rid. I do believe that Hitler was indeed "Mad" as Livingstone said in the sense that having left home to find work he found destitution and had to resort to sleeping, with many other destitutes not in the gutter but in the sewers to avoid freezing to death. We know that there are noxious gasses produced in sewers, some of these may have had an effect on his brain(still developing as a young man) and also the apparent affluence of some contrasting with the privations of others has a deep psychological efect on anyone in their formative years. compare this to the appeal of IS to younger Muslims who feel isolated and deprived of the more luxurious items available to affluent people now.

 

So what you are saying is Corbyn is such a mealy mouthed little weed he sacked an MP and an ex London Mayor, not because they were anti-semites, but because he was frightened of the newspapers.