Naz Shah suspended from Parliament for anti Jewish rants.

[Margarita Ma 10]

And your point is?

 

My point is:

The Haavara agreement was a way for rich Jews to escape the privations they were suffering. It was hammered out by rich Jews and rich Nazis and benefited both, while others continued to suffer and be exterminated in the ever burgeoning " Arbeit Macht Frei" concentration camps which rid the Nazi state of all those who were undesirable. Not just Jews but anyone the Nazi regime thought of as a drain on the resources of the state.

Reading between the lines of Mein Kampf it is clear that Hitler had several bees in his bonnet and the gassing of his victims was some sort of mad revenge for the gassing of his comrades in the first world war.

 

Looking at the present situation it seems that the whole world population has become paranoid on the basis of their religious background.

The Jews and Muslims are very good at making a fantastic noise any time anything is said that may or may not be interpreted as being a slight or critical of anything connected to them and seemingly believe they have a right to behave in ways that are totally unsupportable when done by anyone else.

 

Various Nations have been condemned at various times for their actions but criticise Israel for its treatment of a people that they invaded and then corralled in the hell hole known as Ghaza and we get "Holocaust" thrown at us as if it justifies every Beit clearance and Jewish settlement in Palestine. Guilt complex is a great weapon as long as people will accept a responsibility that is not theirs. I will not accept that responsability.

Yes the Holocaust was Horrific, it was seventy years ago there have been other atrocities since then. I find it atrocious that people who were drafted into an army are being held responsible for those who made the drafting and are now ninety year old men are being wheeled into courtrooms to answer for crimes that they could not have done anything to stop, any more than the Jewish guards who escorted those condemned to the gas chambers. This is guilt-feelings transfer and revenge not justice.

The Jews learned well from the Romans "Divide and Rule" was their motto.

I am not against Jews, Muslims Catholics (though I am an Ex). or any other religion or Nation. We have to learn to live together and to do that we have to stop being supersensitive to the point where it is not possible to say anything without offending someone somewhere. I have a Celtic ancestry yet I can giggle at jokes that poke fun at the Irish Scots and Welsh. I worked for probably the nicest man I ever knew as a teenager he had been sent to England as a young man when his parents realised what was happening in Germany. He lost all of his family, he was not full of hatred and revenge, he was thankful he had survived with the help of his parents and the help of people both in Germany and in Britain.

 

---------- Post added 01-05-2016 at 23:14 ----------

 

Either the Labour Party is riddled with racists or the leadership are morons for trying to tackle something that doesn't exist. Either way it isn't a great advert.

 

You are a Tory of course.

[foxy lady 10]

 

You are a Tory of course.

 

Do you want to try for best of three?

 

By the way. I do love the way you run around trying to defend the racists. Do you think the leadership is wrong? My personal view is you just have the wrong leadership.

Edited May 1, 2016 by foxy lady

[Margarita Ma 10]

Dear Foxy,

you are living up to your pen name are you not.

 

I admit what I do not know, I investigate what I do not know and present the facts. I have not defended racists but presented the facts. I pointed out Hitler's thinking outlined in the early part of Mein Kampf and his later support of the Haavara agreement when he saw that Nazi Germany could benefit by it.

 

I also read in full what others have written while sat in front of my laptop not while running around glancing at an I phone and preparing the next snidy comment. I suggest you do some serious reading yourself. Then concider.

 

Do you seriously think that your comments on here will have any effect on the forthcoming election, if you do that is pitiful. Your stance in the posts you have written make it clear your sole objective is to try to inflict damage. This is a typical Tory tactic, so if you are not a card carrying Tory I will be very surprised. The antics of many Politicians in Parliament dismay disgust the general population and denigrate the positions they hold as representatives of the people. Tory bowels are obviously in great distress at the thought there is a serious man on the front bench asking serious questions instead of turning the whole of British politics into a Farmyard Comedy.

[foxy lady 10]

Dear Foxy,

you are living up to your pen name are you not.

 

I admit what I do not know, I investigate what I do not know and present the facts. I have not defended racists but presented the facts. I pointed out Hitler's thinking outlined in the early part of Mein Kampf and his later support of the Haavara agreement when he saw that Nazi Germany could benefit by it.

 

I also read in full what others have written while sat in front of my laptop not while running around glancing at an I phone and preparing the next snidy comment. I suggest you do some serious reading yourself. Then concider.

 

Do you seriously think that your comments on here will have any effect on the forthcoming election, if you do that is pitiful. Your stance in the posts you have written make it clear your sole objective is to try to inflict damage. This is a typical Tory tactic, so if you are not a card carrying Tory I will be very surprised. The antics of many Politicians in Parliament dismay disgust the general population and denigrate the positions they hold as representatives of the people. Tory bowels are obviously in great distress at the thought there is a serious man on the front bench asking serious questions instead of turning the whole of British politics into a Farmyard Comedy.

 

Actually I'm debating the point of this thread which is that Naz Shah got suspended (not expelled) from the Labour Party for anti-semitic tweets. This was followed up by Ken Livingstone getting suspended (not expelled) from the Labour Party for supporting her position. I'm not particularly interested in you twisted history lesson on behalf of the Anti-Semitic Party. I'm interested in the anti-semites in the Labour Party and what they are doing about them. It seems there are a few on here who clearly think the anti-semites are correct and are ranting about anything other than the suspensions.

 

Do I think it will have any effect on the forthcoming election? Well you clearly do. Which is why you want to talk about anything other than that.

[MikeFrank 10]

The council elections, if Labour bombs, may be explained away by this issue. I don't think it will have a much of an effect. Labour will bomb because they are becoming a protest party. I wouldn't be surprised if UKIP overtake them in the next ten years to become the second party.

 

UKIP are gaining some respectably whereby they were constantly rubbished by the other parties and the media. Funnily enough other parties are beginning to accept many of their policies as what the electorate want.

 

---------- Post added 02-05-2016 at 10:03 ----------

 

As for the Israel issue most ordinary people don't care. Its a minor territory dispute on the other side of the world.

[unbeliever 10]

As for the Israel issue most ordinary people don't care. Its a minor territory dispute on the other side of the world.

 

Talk to some proper lefties.

A lot of them will assert with great confidence the myth that the Israel/Palestine issue is the sole or primary reason for the conflict between the west and the muslim world.

[El Cid 216]

Talk to some proper lefties.

A lot of them will assert with great confidence the myth that the Israel/Palestine issue is the sole or primary reason for the conflict between the west and the muslim world.

 

The rich G8 nations are the countries that are responsible for the state of the globe, you can be positive or negative about that.

The rich G8 influence peace and war; it would be ridiculous to say that the poor countries had the most influence.

[unbeliever 10]

The rich G8 nations are the countries that are responsible for the state of the globe, you can be positive or negative about that.

The rich G8 influence peace and war; it would be ridiculous to say that the poor countries had the most influence.

 

I have no idea what this is supposed to tell us. Other than that you are distrustful of the rich.

[Margarita Ma 10]

Actually I'm debating the point of this thread which is that Naz Shah got suspended (not expelled) from the Labour Party for anti-semitic tweets. This was followed up by Ken Livingstone getting suspended (not expelled) from the Labour Party for supporting her position. I'm not particularly interested in you twisted history lesson on behalf of the Anti-Semitic Party. I'm interested in the anti-semites in the Labour Party and what they are doing about them. It seems there are a few on here who clearly think the anti-semites are correct and are ranting about anything other than the suspensions.

 

Do I think it will have any effect on the forthcoming election? Well you clearly do. Which is why you want to talk about anything other than that.

 

I have presented fact. and came to a conclusion that the events that took place did so because it was advantageous both of the parties engaged in the agreement. Neither side comes out of that particular wash squeaky clean. there was not much of a choice involved for the Jews in the matter except get out if you can or arm yourselves and have a civil war. Not much of a choice at all when you are outnumbered 100 to 1. That does not change the facts Hitler came around to the agreement to obtain money for his purpose and get rid of a few Jews along the way. How is that twisted ? The fact that only Rich Jews would be able to put up a Thousand Pounds Sterling how is that twisted. Are you saying that there were no poor Jews? Or that the agreement did not exist or that it did not support the exodus of those who wished to take their wealth or most of it with them. The Nazi party prevented Jews from mass emigration and withdrawing their wealth from the country. The agreement allowed some rich Jews to emigrate for a fee/ fine by depositing/extorting money in exchange for being able to take goods with them, which had become the property of the German government through appropriation when people declared the intention of leaving.

But You do not wish to acknowledge or even investigate for yourself So now you have rejected documented historical fact and resort to name calling.

Perhaps Naz Shah should have been more politically astute, I certainly see a lot of support on behalf of the USA for Israel which is odd given that many Jews were turned away from their shores when in desperate need just as others turned away. I find the "poor me I am always under attack" syndrome sickening when Israel constantly sits watching as Jewish 'Settlers' turn people out of their homes bulldoze them and leave them without shelter and a means to earn a living. Just as I find the "You don't understand our culture" of Muslims who are criticised for their honour killings and forced marriages sickening.

You have not been discussing the suspension of Naz Shah at all which would be a conversation about whether or not she should have been subjected to suspension and I believe you said earlier sacked from her job) and the merits or not of that (but having a sly underhanded dig at the Labour party. Now this has been pointed out you resort to the sort of name calling My ex Mother in Law resorted to when I left my first husband because of his behaviour. This name calling is beneath contempt.

PS.

Just to clarify things : because someone reads a publication does not mean that they agree with what is written.

I have also read many other books which give many other views on many other subjects and do not necessarily agree with them either.

Edited May 2, 2016 by Margarita Ma
PS.

[Ridgewalk 97]

Poeple should be reflective enough to acknowledge that when they describe opinions they don't agree with as "on a rant" "ranting" that it is a subjective judgement. It is used as an insult not an argument to make a point

[foxy lady 10]

I have presented fact. and came to a conclusion that the events that took place did so because it was advantageous both of the parties engaged in the agreement. Neither side comes out of that particular wash squeaky clean. there was not much of a choice involved for the Jews in the matter except get out if you can or arm yourselves and have a civil war. Not much of a choice at all when you are outnumbered 100 to 1. That does not change the facts Hitler came around to the agreement to obtain money for his purpose and get rid of a few Jews along the way. How is that twisted ? The fact that only Rich Jews would be able to put up a Thousand Pounds Sterling how is that twisted. Are you saying that there were no poor Jews? Or that the agreement did not exist or that it did not support the exodus of those who wished to take their wealth or most of it with them. The Nazi party prevented Jews from mass emigration and withdrawing their wealth from the country. The agreement allowed some rich Jews to emigrate for a fee/ fine by depositing/extorting money in exchange for being able to take goods with them, which had become the property of the German government through appropriation when people declared the intention of leaving.

But You do not wish to acknowledge or even investigate for yourself So now you have rejected documented historical fact and resort to name calling.

Perhaps Naz Shah should have been more politically astute, I certainly see a lot of support on behalf of the USA for Israel which is odd given that many Jews were turned away from their shores when in desperate need just as others turned away. I find the "poor me I am always under attack" syndrome sickening when Israel constantly sits watching as Jewish 'Settlers' turn people out of their homes bulldoze them and leave them without shelter and a means to earn a living. Just as I find the "You don't understand our culture" of Muslims who are criticised for their honour killings and forced marriages sickening.

You have not been discussing the suspension of Naz Shah at all which would be a conversation about whether or not she should have been subjected to suspension and I believe you said earlier sacked from her job) and the merits or not of that (but having a sly underhanded dig at the Labour party. Now this has been pointed out you resort to the sort of name calling My ex Mother in Law resorted to when I left my first husband because of his behaviour. This name calling is beneath contempt.

PS.

Just to clarify things : because someone reads a publication does not mean that they agree with what is written.

I have also read many other books which give many other views on many other subjects and do not necessarily agree with them either.

 

I have no interest in debating whichever version of history you are promoting. Nor am I interested in your version of historical "facts". I'm discussing Naz Shah, her anti-semitic tweets, Ken Livingstone and the suspension of both them and others from the Labour Party.

Now either Corbyn is right or wrong to suspend them. Many of his MPs say he didn't go far enough and should have expelled them. Indeed according to The Times, several prominent backers are withdrawing financial support from the Labour Party, and several front bench Labour MPs preparing to resign.

 

It will be interesting to see how that pans out. Will they wait until the coming elections, or use them as an excuse to try to bring down the party leadership?

[milquetoast1 10]

I have no interest in debating whichever version of history you are promoting. Nor am I interested in your version of historical "facts".

 

Isn't it quite amusing that to defend himself against the charge of anti-Semitism, Ken Livingston and his friends are referring to anti-Semitic literature and anti-Semetic versions of the "truth".