Naz Shah suspended from Parliament for anti Jewish rants.

[milquetoast1 10]

What lie?

 

The one you are trying to defend. That Hitler supported Zionism before he changed his mind in 1932 when he went "crazy".

 

(This of course suggests that Hitler wasn't "crazy" before 1932, but I'll let you think about that one)

 

That the The Haavara Agreement was signed in 1933 is irrelevant. It was a convenient way of Nazi Germany getting rid of the "Jewish Problem". It didn't matter if it was Palestine, Madagascar, or parts of Poland, anywhere would do. To think it was supporting Zionism is crazy.

 

Besides, look again at the website you've cut 'n pasted from and you will see that Hitler didn't even support the Haavara agreement in 1933. His support of it came later, when the Nazis were already seizing Jewish businesses, banning Jews from public events and parts of German cities.

 

Only an anti-Semite could possibly try to argue that Hitler supported the Zionist cause, or that the Haavara Agreement supports that idea.

[foxy lady 10]

 

Here's a bit of food for thought. Imagine if Donald Trump had said ban all Jews instead of ban all Muslims. Would he still be running for the presidency, I think not!

 

I suppose it would depend how many planes Jews had flown into tall buildings around New York in recent years.

[sutty27 10]

The one you are trying to defend. That Hitler supported Zionism before he changed his mind in 1932 when he went "crazy".

 

(This of course suggests that Hitler wasn't "crazy" before 1932, but I'll let you think about that one)

 

That the The Haavara Agreement was signed in 1933 is irrelevant. It was a convenient way of Nazi Germany getting rid of the "Jewish Problem". It didn't matter if it was Palestine, Madagascar, or parts of Poland, anywhere would do. To think it was supporting Zionism is crazy.

 

Besides, look again at the website you've cut 'n pasted from and you will see that Hitler didn't even support the Haavara agreement in 1933. His support of it came later, when the Nazis were already seizing Jewish businesses, banning Jews from public events and parts of German cities.

 

Only an anti-Semite could possibly try to argue that Hitler supported the Zionist cause, or that the Haavara Agreement supports that idea.

 

Hence the reason he supported Zionism, supporting something that solves a problem doesn't mean you like it or are part of it, its the end result you like.

 

I can assure you that I am not an anti-Semite, I support Israel's right to exist in the place it exist now, its historic homeland and have on many occasions defended it's right to exist and condemned those that attack it.

[milquetoast1 10]

I still do not understand how saying Israel should be moved to America is anti Jewish.

 

The comment seems to be highlighting the hypocrisy of American foreign policy in the Middle East.

 

A lot of people forget that the Palestinians are also semites, and therefore the oppression and racism perpetrated against them by Israel makes Israel the most anti semitic of all.

 

These days it seems fine for the mainstream media and politicians to criticize Muslims any chance they get but any mention of Israel by someone in public office and they are forced to apologise for racism. Even though Israel is not a race or even a religion. Its a nation which came into existence at the expense of the local inhabitants which it has been killing and oppressing ever since.

 

Here's a bit of food for thought. Imagine if Donald Trump had said ban all Jews instead of ban all Muslims. Would he still be running for the presidency, I think not!

 

Here's some more food for thought. Imagine if David Cameron had said let's move London's Borough of Tower Hamlets to Bangladesh, problem solved.

 

I think that might get a few Labour MPs a bit upset.

[blake 10]

A lot of people forget that the Palestinians are also semites, and therefore the oppression and racism perpetrated against them by Israel makes Israel the most anti semitic of all.

 

 

this is not true either.

 

the word antisemite has got nothing to do with 'semite'. Words are not the sum of their parts. Note how we can drive on parkways, and park on driveways.

 

the German word from which antisemitism derives, antisemitisch (with no hyphen) was coined by a Jew hater by the name of Wilhelm Marr. It just refers to Jews. Not anyone else. Just Jews.

 

at around the same time as antisemitisch entered the lexicon, linguistic scholars coined the word SEMITIC to describe a language group, which includes the Hebrew, Arabic, and Armhaic languages.

 

so orginally, the word SEMITIC referred to languages, and definitely not the people that spoke them.

 

however more recently, yes, the word SEMITE it has become used to refer to people, but even to this day, some dictionaries have no entry for the word SEMITE although they do all have an entry for the word SEMITIC.

 

the word antisemite which has never been about anybody else other than Jews.

[milquetoast1 10]

A lot of people forget that the Palestinians are also semites, and therefore the oppression and racism perpetrated against them by Israel makes Israel the most anti semitic of all.

 

I think I'm a bit of an anti-semantics to be honest.

[barneyred 10]

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/30/nobody-bothered-to-check-who-created-that-anti-semitic-image-naz-shah-retweeted-did-they/

[taxman 12]

Here's some more food for thought. Imagine if David Cameron had said let's move London's Borough of Tower Hamlets to Bangladesh, problem solved.

 

I think that might get a few Labour MPs a bit upset.

 

I wasn't aware that the Govt of Bangladesh arms the borough of Tower Hamlets, sends billions of $ to them or vetoes UN condemnations of the borough of Tower Hamlets when they oppress their neighbours and break UN resolutions about occupying other peoples' land.

 

 

This, by the way, is an example of a pro Israel and pro Jew posting a comment that can both criticize some of the actions of the Israeli government but still recognise their right to exist. Some people need to get a grip and stop kneejurking and screaming "anti-semite" when people raise honest questions about what the Israeli Govt does.

[blake 10]

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/04/30/nobody-bothered-to-check-who-created-that-anti-semitic-image-naz-shah-retweeted-did-they/

 

but the author of that link gets it wrong too - like Livingstone and Galloway, who also weighed in a couple of days ago - did.

 

they try to make out that the Haarava agreement was like a Nazi 'plan', and Livingstone even tried to make out that it was like a plank of Hitler's manifesto of the 1932 election - an election which Hitler did, of course, not win like Livingstone said, but lost by a landslide.

 

the Haarava agreement wasn't a Nazi 'plan' at all. It was a idea by some members of the Jewish Palestinian Yishuv, concerned about the clear antimsemitism of Hitler's Nazi party, to try to promote Jewish emigration from Germany to Palestine at their own expense, a plan which financially benefited Germany, at a time when the British were actively trying to discourage Jewish immigration. Hitler allowed it to be implemented, but he was no great fan of the Haarava agreement. The major German political figure that implemented it was a guy called Werner Otto von Hentig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Werner_Otto_von_Hentig a genuinely heroic figure, an ANTI-NAZI who is a bit of a Zionist hero really, and it is one of life's little mysteries why Von Hentig isn't honoured at Israel's Yad Vashem's Righteous Among the Nations like Oskar Schindler.

 

oh and here's a point to ponder. Finkelstein's link, which before she even dreamt of being Galloway's successor and becoming MP for Bradford West, Naz 'liked' on Facebook, says that the United States has 'plenty of land' to accommodate Israel as its 51st state.

 

but the Arab world, for which no precise definition exists but which is usually thought of as being composed of Algeria, Bahrain, Comoros, Dijobouti, Egypt, Iraq, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Mauritania, Morrocco, Oman, Palestine, Qatar, Saudi Arabia, Somalia, Syria, Tunisia, UAE, and Yemen is MUCH BIGGER than the United States. It's about 60% bigger.

Edited May 1, 2016 by blake

[foxy lady 10]

I wasn't aware that the Govt of Bangladesh arms the borough of Tower Hamlets, sends billions of $ to them or vetoes UN condemnations of the borough of Tower Hamlets when they oppress their neighbours and break UN resolutions about occupying other peoples' land.

 

 

This, by the way, is an example of a pro Israel and pro Jew posting a comment that can both criticize some of the actions of the Israeli government but still recognise their right to exist. Some people need to get a grip and stop kneejurking and screaming "anti-semite" when people raise honest questions about what the Israeli Govt does.

 

But the problem is that the Labour Party long since abandoned any form of reasoned debate. Their MPs and councillors attempting to win power in places like Bradford have to come out with anti Israel rhetoric, and statements like the state of Israel should be wiped from the map, in order to gain power. It is what their voters want to hear because it is what their voters beieve themselves.

[banjodeano 31]

Ken Livingstone

 

 

Yes it does.

 

Like supporting Sheffield Wednesday makes you a Owls fan, supporting equal rights for women make you a feminist, or supporting the Liberal Democrats make you a Lib Dem.

 

In the 1930's supporting the idea for the creation of a Jewish nation in what is now Israel would make you a Zionist. You didn't have to be a Jew to be a Zionist.

 

This is precisely what Ken Livingstone was suggesting. That a man who was single-handedly responsible for the murder of millions of Jews, was somehow trying to help their cause. It's an anti-Semite lie.

 

This lie has spread like a virus on the extreme right, and extreme left, for many years on the back of Lenni Brenner's book.

 

The fact that this lie slipped out of Livingstone's lips shows how the racism of the far-left has spread into the mainstream left.

 

So....with your logic then, if you support gay and lesbian rights.........wait for it..................it makes you gay or lesbian, classic lol

[LeMaquis 10]

But the problem is that the Labour Party long since abandoned any form of reasoned debate. Their MPs and councillors attempting to win power in places like Bradford have to come out with anti Israel rhetoric, and statements like the state of Israel should be wiped from the map, in order to gain power. It is what their voters want to hear because it is what their voters beieve themselves.

 

Your argument is undermined a bit by Labour's real policy on Israel as explained by the Jewish Chronicle last year when the Labour Party was led by the very Jewish Ed Miliband;

 

"Launched in Manchester on Monday morning, the policy document outlines Labour’s commitment to “a comprehensive two-state solution” for Israel and the Palestinians.

 

"The manifesto highlights the desire for a “secure Israel alongside a viable and independent state of Palestine”.

 

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/133911/labour-manifesto-pledges-commitment-two-state-solution-israel-and-palestinians

 

And what is your view on Labour's former leader?

 

.....a Labour drubbing under the unelectable Miliband........

Edited May 1, 2016 by LeMaquis