medusa   16 #85 Posted April 26, 2016 I was outside the ground on that day. I saw some horrible things, but I know that what I saw was not the whole picture. My image didn't include any of the 'how' or 'why' answers, and I don't imagine that any single person was aware of those answers at the time either. Even the senior police crowd management team would be unaware of some of the answers at the fateful moments. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Shef1985 Â Â 10 #86 Posted April 26, 2016 I'm not in the habit of biting to have threads closed thanks Of course it will I'm sure and I'll hold my breath until that point when EVERYTHING is revealed.... Â If you have evidence Liverpool fans caused the disaster and didn't present it to the inquest you can't call it a whitewash can you? By withholding evidence you are holding the brush! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
byeo   10 #87 Posted April 26, 2016 We will always go down in history and lore as the city where 'it happened' It's been that way for many many years.. and I don't think it's just me that's sick of it.  Sheffield is where it happened, but to say that when you mention Sheffield to football fans they instantly think Hillsborough, is pushing it a bit. Like I said, Mention Hillsborough to them and you may get a more "Hillsborough disaster" related response. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Vaati   11 #88 Posted April 26, 2016 I was 6 years old when this happened. Wondering if 'daddy' was coming home. I did not fully comprehend what had happened that day. But my dad saw a lot. He was never the same again.  He told me stories of what he saw that day and it still chills me thinking about it. Whatever our personal opinions are there is a very certain fact 96 people did not live.  For the respect of the 96 I tip my hat and will not say more but RIP at today's decision. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
PeteMorris   10 #89 Posted April 26, 2016 Pete, that is a strawman and you know it. Nobody has ever said the fans formed an orderly queue, nobody has ever claimed their behaviour was exemplary, orderly or even uniformly nice. What has been proven by reviewing the available evidence is that they did not cause or even contribute to the disaster.  If you do not want to believe the evidence or the findings of those that have adjudicated upon it do you have the courage to ask yourself why?  Why would anybody believe something for which there is no evidence?  No...It's simply my dispassionate view, having never posted before about this subject. I just find it somewhat difficult to comprehend that the crowd there on that awful day were utterly blameless, and contributed absolutely nothing to what unfolded.  Yep I accept that the jury exonerated them after hearing all the evidence...But not even just the tiniest responsibility?...  But of course my 'take' on it means nothing, I know...  But in the grand scheme of things, if there weren't hooligans attending football matches, there would have been no need for fences or pens!... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
byeo   10 #90 Posted April 26, 2016 I would like to know if there could ever be any evidence that would change the minds of those who blame the fans regardless?  The reputation of their fans at the time due to being a successful club does not help. They did it up and down the country, wherever Liverpool played. Yet they were all good boys and girls that fateful day... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
medusa   16 #91 Posted April 26, 2016 The reputation of their fans at the time due to being a successful club does not help. They did it up and down the country, wherever Liverpool played. Yet they were all good boys and girls that fateful day...  Which means that they acted as a very predictable crowd. Surely the onus is then on the policing, ground management and stewarding to manage that very predictable crowd? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Jim Hardie   527 #92 Posted April 26, 2016 So by inference their behaviour was above reproach? They all formed a thoroughly British orderly queue?  In the first instance there probably was an orderly queue but the instant it breaks down it's gone and nothing will restore it. Anyone arriving subsequently has no choice but to join in the melee if he wants to get in the ground. I don't attach blame to supporters finding themselves in this situation, it's happened to me in the past. Why would a queue break down? I've seen people attempting to jump the queue causing this to happen (not on the day in question) or it could have been frustration at the slow progress bringing about a bit of shoving. I wasn't there, I don't know. The jury has answered Question 7 so it's pointless speculating. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Guest busdriver1 Â Â #93 Posted April 26, 2016 As someone who lost a relation that day and had another injured all I can say is that this is a whitewash to shut up the campaigners. Did my relative give evidence? No. Threats that sounded quite meaningful prevented that. I am out. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
mikem8634 Â Â 10 #94 Posted April 26, 2016 The reputation of their fans at the time due to being a successful club does not help. They did it up and down the country, wherever Liverpool played. Yet they were all good boys and girls that fateful day... Â Once again, nobody is saying they were all good boys and girls that fateful day... Â What evidence do you have that they caused or contributed to the tragedy beyond they must have or it stands to reason? Â ---------- Post added 26-04-2016 at 14:19 ---------- Â As someone who lost a relation that day and had another injured all I can say is that this is a whitewash to shut up the campaigners. Did my relative give evidence? No. Threats that sounded quite meaningful prevented that. I am out. Â Do you have any evidence to prove the jury was wrong? Â Do you have any evidence relating to threats? If there has been an attempt to pervert the course of justice it must be investigated and if proven, addressed. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
blackydog   40 #95 Posted April 26, 2016 Sheffield Wednesday to blame – check Police to blame – check  Planners to blame – check  Ambulance service to blame – check  Engineers to blame – check#  Drunk fans without tickets – not a chance   Drunk fans without tickets – not a chance check! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
byeo   10 #96 Posted April 26, 2016 (edited) Which means that they acted as a very predictable crowd. Surely the onus is then on the policing, ground management and stewarding to manage that very predictable crowd?  But if fans attended without tickets or with fakes, how can you account for the unknown ? You can't guess how many ticketless fans will turn up. Edited April 26, 2016 by byeo Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
