Halibut 12 #229 Posted March 1, 2019 6 hours ago, danot said: Anyhow, back on topic, Yeah, that'd be good because all that completely irrelevant guff about the NHS and pricey drugs has got naff all to do with capital punishment. Try this for size. Why do we award murder special status and punish it with long (sometimes whole life) prison terms? Because we believe human life is special and we think deliberately taking it is a truly awful and abhorrent act, that we deplore utterly. If we choose to kill the killers, we engage in the very act that we seek to condemn. We do something awful and something abhorrent. We become that which we hate. We occupy the same moral cesspool as the killers. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Cyclone 10 #230 Posted March 1, 2019 A legal system where a judge gets to decide that you've definitely done it and so you get executed without recourse to appeals or anything. Appeals exist specifically because judges and juries are fallible and make mistakes. 7 hours ago, danot said: By "The courts", I mean a judge, or a jury, whichever you prefer. Your examples: Limited resources is an understatement. Article dated 2015 Eculizumab, also known as soliris is to become the most expensive drug available on the NHS. it costs £340,000 per patient, or around £10m over the total treatment with an annual cost of £82m to the NHS. NICE approved the treatment through a separate process for ultra rare conditions that bypass the usual value for money formula. 200 patients will receive treatment extending their lives by around 25 years. The reason Eculizumab is so expensive is because drug companies must recoup their research costs from a small number of patients, the times reported. The decision comes after it was revealed last week that 8000 cancer suffers are likely to have their lives cut short following a decision to withdraw funding for 25 treatments. More than 3000 patients a year with bowel cancer and 1700 patients with breast cancer are amongst those affected by the decision. experts said around two thirds of those who seek NHS treatment for advanced bowel cancer are likely to face an earlier death because of the funding withdrawal. Eculizumab offers people with the disease (aHUS) the possibility of avoiding end stage renal failure, dialysis, and kidney transplantation, as well as other organ damage. This level of underfunding is taking more lives than it saves. Shameful. Anyhow, back on topic, Limited resources is a fact of reality. Nobody has a magic money tree that provides unlimited resources. And you appear to be talking about 2 different decisions above without explaining what has been withdrawn and why. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11844314/Thousands-of-cancer-patients-to-be-denied-treatment.html Blame the tories and the deliberate underfunding of the NHS. This has nothing to do with the death penalty and your incredibly cavalier "reforms" that would make it cheaper to kill someone than imprison them. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
danot 10 #231 Posted March 1, 2019 36 minutes ago, Cyclone said: A legal system where a judge gets to decide that you've definitely done it and so you get executed without recourse to appeals or anything. Appeals exist specifically because judges and juries are fallible and make mistakes. Limited resources is a fact of reality. Nobody has a magic money tree that provides unlimited resources. And you appear to be talking about 2 different decisions above without explaining what has been withdrawn and why. https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11844314/Thousands-of-cancer-patients-to-be-denied-treatment.html Blame the tories and the deliberate underfunding of the NHS. This has nothing to do with the death penalty and your incredibly cavalier "reforms" that would make it cheaper to kill someone than imprison them. 49 minutes ago, Halibut said: Yeah, that'd be good because all that completely irrelevant guff about the NHS and pricey drugs has got naff all to do with capital punishment. Try this for size. Why do we award murder special status and punish it with long (sometimes whole life) prison terms? Because we believe human life is special and we think deliberately taking it is a truly awful and abhorrent act, that we deplore utterly. If we choose to kill the killers, we engage in the very act that we seek to condemn. We do something awful and something abhorrent. We become that which we hate. We occupy the same moral cesspool as the killers. Whether we unjustifiably deprive a patient of life through underfunding or unjustifiably execute a lifer, we're still unjustifiably ending someone's life. Billions are spent safeguarding the lives of criminals while the lives of patients are of secondary importance it seems. It's wrong. Back on topic. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
blake 10 #232 Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) The UK would have to import a hangman, almost certainly from Singapore or Malaysia, as nobody in Britain has a clue how to do the job after all this time. Nobody alive even has any experience of how to design and build gallows properly. the going rate per hanging is around 500 Singapore dollars ( about 280 GBP pounds) per execution, plus expenses. Malaysian hangmen are probably cheaper as they are about to become permanently unemployed by the looks of things as Malaysia is on the point of abolishing capital punishment. Edited March 1, 2019 by blake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut 12 #233 Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, danot said: Billions are spent safeguarding the lives of criminals while the lives of patients are of secondary importance it seems. It's wrong. Back on topic. Hyperbole of the week. 999/10 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
neworderishere 0 #234 Posted March 1, 2019 48 minutes ago, blake said: The UK would have to import a hangman, almost certainly from Singapore or Malaysia, as nobody in Britain has a clue how to do the job after all this time. Nobody alive even has any experience of how to design and build gallows properly. the going rate per hanging is around 500 Singapore dollars ( about 280 GBP pounds) per execution, plus expenses. Malaysian hangmen are probably cheaper as they are about to become permanently unemployed by the looks of things as Malaysia is on the point of abolishing capital punishment. why bother with hanging? a bullet in the back of the head is far cheaper and easier, no fuss no great expense, could be done clinically with a machine if necessary. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
Halibut 12 #235 Posted March 1, 2019 1 minute ago, neworderishere said: why bother with hanging? a bullet in the back of the head is far cheaper and easier, no fuss no great expense, could be done clinically with a machine if necessary. Yay, all hail our robot killer overlords. There's always one... Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
neworderishere 0 #236 Posted March 1, 2019 2 minutes ago, Halibut said: Yay, all hail our robot killer overlords. There's always one... is it not easier and cheaper? we would still have to authorise the kill. whats the problem? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
PRESLEY 1,201 #237 Posted March 1, 2019 What if they hang the wrong person. Oops! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
danot 10 #238 Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 3 hours ago, PRESLEY said: What if they hang the wrong person. Oops! What if an innocent person hanged themselves after being wrongfully imprisoned for life? What if it's actually happened? Edited March 1, 2019 by danot Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
blake 10 #239 Posted March 1, 2019 (edited) 7 hours ago, neworderishere said: why bother with hanging? a bullet in the back of the head is far cheaper and easier. If they were to bring it back in Britain they would surely use the method they always used, hanging, which is not expensive at all, and very quick. The gallows is only built once and is used repeatedly. Even the rope could be used again, although in practice it never was. The best time ever recorded for a British execution, was 6.5 seconds. That was the amount of time it took for the key to turn in the lock of the cell into which the hangman entered and the drop in which everyone was killed instantly. There were no botched executions at all as far as I know in Britain in the 20th century and certainly not after 1918 - just a few that went on a little too long between the hangman's entrance to the cell, and the drop - the pressure was always on, to do it as quickly as possible. The average time by the by the end after 1945 was supposed to be about 12 seconds. It is hard to see how any method of execution can be much quicker and less expensive than hanging. Also with hangings, you can double or triple up, and only one person needs to 'pull the trigger' - although they stopped doing that in British prisons in the 1920s. In the Middle East it is today not unusual for even 6-8 people to stand on the same trap door and be hanged simultaneously. Edited March 1, 2019 by blake Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...
PRESLEY 1,201 #240 Posted March 1, 2019 1 hour ago, danot said: What if an innocent person hanged themselves after being wrongfully imprisoned for life? What if it's actually happened? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites Share this content via...