Jump to content
Fancy running a forum? Sheffield Forum is for sale! Learn more

Should The Death Penalty Be Brought Back?

Recommended Posts

22 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

"The courts"?  What does that mean?  A judge?  A jury?  A quango?  Who exactly?  And how can you ensure it isn't open to abuse?

 

NICE makes a decision about the use of limited resources to most effectively save lives.

We don't have an endless pot of money, if a drug costs a £1,000,000 per treatment and on average extends lifespan by 50 days (for example) compared to another one that costs £100 and extends lifespan by years, then quite clearly you fund the cheaper drug and not the more expensive one, in the case where you have limited resources.

 

You keep drawing a false equivalent, it's not going to help you make any point here about state sanctioned murder.

By "The courts", I mean a judge, or a jury, whichever you prefer.  

 

Your examples:   Limited resources is an understatement.

 

Article dated 2015 

 

Eculizumab, also known as soliris is to become the most expensive drug available on the NHS. it costs £340,000 per patient, or around £10m over the total treatment with an annual cost of £82m to the NHS. NICE approved the treatment through a separate process for ultra rare conditions that bypass the usual value for money formula.  200 patients will receive treatment extending their lives by around 25 years.  The reason Eculizumab is so expensive is because drug companies must recoup their research costs from a small number of patients, the times reported. The decision comes after it was revealed last week that 8000 cancer suffers are likely to have their lives cut short following a decision to withdraw funding for 25 treatments. More than 3000 patients a year with bowel cancer and 1700 patients with breast cancer are amongst those affected by the decision.  experts said around two thirds of those who seek NHS treatment for advanced bowel cancer are likely to face an earlier death because of the funding withdrawal.

 

Eculizumab offers people with the disease (aHUS) the possibility of avoiding end stage renal failure, dialysis, and kidney transplantation,  as well as other organ damage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This level of underfunding is taking more lives than it saves. Shameful. 

 

Anyhow, back on topic,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 09/04/2016 at 20:37, crookedspire said:

Well should it?

tell that to the Birmingham four, who were fitted up

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

6 hours ago, danot said:

Anyhow, back on topic,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that'd be good because all that completely irrelevant guff about the NHS and pricey drugs  has got naff all to do with capital punishment.

 

Try this for size.

Why do we award murder special status and punish it with long (sometimes whole life) prison terms?

     Because we believe human life is special and we think deliberately taking it is a truly awful and abhorrent act, that we deplore utterly.

 

If we choose to kill the killers, we engage in the very act that we seek to condemn. We do something awful and something abhorrent. We become that which we hate. We occupy the same moral cesspool as the killers.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

A legal system where a judge gets to decide that you've definitely done it and so you get executed without recourse to appeals or anything.

Appeals exist specifically because judges and juries are fallible and make mistakes.

 

7 hours ago, danot said:

By "The courts", I mean a judge, or a jury, whichever you prefer.  

 

Your examples:   Limited resources is an understatement.

 

Article dated 2015 

 

Eculizumab, also known as soliris is to become the most expensive drug available on the NHS. it costs £340,000 per patient, or around £10m over the total treatment with an annual cost of £82m to the NHS. NICE approved the treatment through a separate process for ultra rare conditions that bypass the usual value for money formula.  200 patients will receive treatment extending their lives by around 25 years.  The reason Eculizumab is so expensive is because drug companies must recoup their research costs from a small number of patients, the times reported. The decision comes after it was revealed last week that 8000 cancer suffers are likely to have their lives cut short following a decision to withdraw funding for 25 treatments. More than 3000 patients a year with bowel cancer and 1700 patients with breast cancer are amongst those affected by the decision.  experts said around two thirds of those who seek NHS treatment for advanced bowel cancer are likely to face an earlier death because of the funding withdrawal.

 

Eculizumab offers people with the disease (aHUS) the possibility of avoiding end stage renal failure, dialysis, and kidney transplantation,  as well as other organ damage. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This level of underfunding is taking more lives than it saves. Shameful. 

 

Anyhow, back on topic,

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Limited resources is a fact of reality.  Nobody has a magic money tree that provides unlimited resources.

And you appear to be talking about 2 different decisions above without explaining what has been withdrawn and why.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11844314/Thousands-of-cancer-patients-to-be-denied-treatment.html

 

Blame the tories and the deliberate underfunding of the NHS.

This has nothing to do with the death penalty and your incredibly cavalier "reforms" that would make it cheaper to kill someone than imprison them.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
36 minutes ago, Cyclone said:

A legal system where a judge gets to decide that you've definitely done it and so you get executed without recourse to appeals or anything.

Appeals exist specifically because judges and juries are fallible and make mistakes.

 

Limited resources is a fact of reality.  Nobody has a magic money tree that provides unlimited resources.

And you appear to be talking about 2 different decisions above without explaining what has been withdrawn and why.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/health/11844314/Thousands-of-cancer-patients-to-be-denied-treatment.html

 

Blame the tories and the deliberate underfunding of the NHS.

This has nothing to do with the death penalty and your incredibly cavalier "reforms" that would make it cheaper to kill someone than imprison them.

 

49 minutes ago, Halibut said:

 

Yeah, that'd be good because all that completely irrelevant guff about the NHS and pricey drugs  has got naff all to do with capital punishment.

 

Try this for size.

Why do we award murder special status and punish it with long (sometimes whole life) prison terms?

     Because we believe human life is special and we think deliberately taking it is a truly awful and abhorrent act, that we deplore utterly.

 

If we choose to kill the killers, we engage in the very act that we seek to condemn. We do something awful and something abhorrent. We become that which we hate. We occupy the same moral cesspool as the killers.

 

 

Whether we unjustifiably deprive a patient of life through underfunding or unjustifiably execute a lifer, we're still unjustifiably ending someone's life.  Billions are spent safeguarding the lives of criminals while the lives of patients are of secondary importance it seems.  It's wrong. 

 

Back on topic.

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The UK would have to import a hangman, almost certainly from Singapore or Malaysia, as nobody in Britain has a clue how to do the job after all this time. Nobody alive even has any experience of how to design and build gallows properly. 

 

the going rate per hanging is around 500 Singapore dollars ( about 280 GBP pounds) per execution, plus expenses.

 

Malaysian hangmen are probably cheaper as they are about to become permanently unemployed by the looks of things as Malaysia is on the point of abolishing capital punishment. 

Edited by blake

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, danot said:

 Billions are spent safeguarding the lives of criminals while the lives of patients are of secondary importance it seems.  It's wrong. 

 

Back on topic.

 

 

Hyperbole of the week. 999/10

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
48 minutes ago, blake said:

The UK would have to import a hangman, almost certainly from Singapore or Malaysia, as nobody in Britain has a clue how to do the job after all this time. Nobody alive even has any experience of how to design and build gallows properly. 

 

the going rate per hanging is around 500 Singapore dollars ( about 280 GBP pounds) per execution, plus expenses.

 

Malaysian hangmen are probably cheaper as they are about to become permanently unemployed by the looks of things as Malaysia is on the point of abolishing capital punishment. 

why bother with hanging? a bullet in the back of the head is far cheaper and easier, no fuss no great expense, could be done clinically with a machine if necessary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 minute ago, neworderishere said:

why bother with hanging? a bullet in the back of the head is far cheaper and easier, no fuss no great expense, could be done clinically with a machine if necessary.

Yay, all hail our robot killer overlords. There's always one...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Halibut said:

Yay, all hail our robot killer overlords. There's always one...

is it not easier and cheaper? we would still have to authorise the kill. whats the problem?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if they hang the wrong person.  Oops! :roll:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, PRESLEY said:

What if they hang the wrong person.  Oops! :roll:

What if an innocent person hanged themselves after being wrongfully imprisoned for life?  What if it's actually happened?

Edited by danot

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.