Now should abortion be this illegal.

[Cyclone 10]

Nah...You said you think it's a WOMEN only issue in your previous post..

 

Explain that?

 

It could be argued that since it's a law that applies exclusively to women (men can't be pregnant and so can't have or not have an abortion), that in a referendum only women should have a say.

Your point that Dads (potential I would add) have no say as to whether an abortion takes place, yes, unfortunately that has to be the case.

Pregnancy is a 9 month long process that takes over a woman's life and causes permanent changes to the body, it comes with a whole range of possible complications, up to and including death. It has to be entirely up to the individual women whether she wishes to proceed with a pregnancy or not.

[Guest makapaka]

It could be argued that since it's a law that applies exclusively to women (men can't be pregnant and so can't have or not have an abortion), that in a referendum only women should have a say.

Your point that Dads (potential I would add) have no say as to whether an abortion takes place, yes, unfortunately that has to be the case.

Pregnancy is a 9 month long process that takes over a woman's life and causes permanent changes to the body, it comes with a whole range of possible complications, up to and including death. It has to be entirely up to the individual women whether she wishes to proceed with a pregnancy or not.

 

Or not have unprotected sex in the first place (granted in issues such as rape it should be treated differently).

[Daven 10]

Or not have unprotected sex in the first place (granted in issues such as rape it should be treated differently).

 

There is no form of contraception that is 100% secure.

With all the care in the world sometimes an unwanted pregnancy happens.

[Cyclone 10]

Or not have unprotected sex in the first place (granted in issues such as rape it should be treated differently).

 

No, that's a ridiculous suggestion. Contraception fails, people make mistakes.

 

It's also not a counter in any way to the points I made about why this could be considered a law that affects women only.

[Guest makapaka]

No, that's a ridiculous suggestion. Contraception fails, people make mistakes.

 

It's also not a counter in any way to the points I made about why this could be considered a law that affects women only.

 

What’s ridiculous about telling people not to have unprotected sex?

 

Contraception fails sometimes yes - but funnily enough all my friends who have decided not to have children have never had children and never had an abortion.

 

As for a law that affects women only - is that the way you see democracy going? Where only the seemingly affected get to give a view?

[Cyclone 10]

It's like you only read fragments of posts

 

Contraception fails, people make mistakes.

 

And like I said, your facetious advice to people is totally unhelpful and irrelevant to the issue of abortions.

 

Do I see democracy (a system of government, not particularly related to how we pass laws) as going the way of laws which specifically apply to a segment of the population, when put to a plebiscite, only including those people to whom the law will apply.

Ignoring the reference to democracy, should plebiscite only include those people to whom the law will affect, well, perhaps, is my answer.

You'll note (having read all the words in the post) that I said "COULD BE", making it clear that I can see that there COULD BE that argument. Not that I am making, or agree with that argument.

In this case, yes, I would be fine with a women only plebiscite on issues of women's bodily autonomy and reproductive rights.

Do you have another example which you wish to hold up as being problematic if only that group were to have a say?

[Daven 10]

What’s ridiculous about telling people not to have unprotected sex?

 

Contraception fails sometimes yes - but funnily enough all my friends who have decided not to have children have never had children and never had an abortion.

 

As for a law that affects women only - is that the way you see democracy going? Where only the seemingly affected get to give a view?

 

Are you absolutely sure ?

It's not something that you would discuss with anyone but those very close to you - and not even them sometimes.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Daven

[Guest makapaka]

Are you absolutely sure ?

It's not something that you would discuss with anyone but those very close to you - and not even them sometimes.

 

The point I was trying to make is that in most instances (obviously barring horrible events like assaults etc) the individual has a wealth of options to prevent themselves getting pregnant.

 

In Ireland they now have a further option to terminate - I’m not against it - it’s just being celebrated like a great achievement. now if it stops a pregnant women dying from sepsis or a rape victim from giving birth then i think it’s a good thing obviously.

 

The rest of the “giving us control over our bodies” stuff - we’ll the control was always there really - I’m not against it but don’t really think it’s much to be celebrated.

[melthebell 863]

it’s just being celebrated like a great achievement.

it is a great achievement, against religious bigotry and intolerance. just like some muslim countries are finally now allowing women to drive, or watch films at the cinema

[Guest makapaka]

it is a great achievement, against religious bigotry and intolerance. just like some muslim countries are finally now allowing women to drive, or watch films at the cinema

 

Yeah I get that I suppose - still think it’s a bit of a grim subject all round.

[Cyclone 10]

The point I was trying to make is that in most instances (obviously barring horrible events like assaults etc) the individual has a wealth of options to prevent themselves getting pregnant.

 

In Ireland they now have a further option to terminate - I’m not against it - it’s just being celebrated like a great achievement. now if it stops a pregnant women dying from sepsis or a rape victim from giving birth then i think it’s a good thing obviously.

 

The rest of the “giving us control over our bodies” stuff - we’ll the control was always there really - I’m not against it but don’t really think it’s much to be celebrated.

 

The control wasn't there 'really'. Women would be denied medical treatment to have an abortion in Ireland.

Have you even been following this in the news?

 

Her story was one that galvanised a movement; her face became a symbol of that movement.

 

Savita Halappanavar died from infection after miscarrying her first child in an Irish hospital in October 2012.

 

Her family said she pleaded for a termination during the miscarriage, but medical staff refused her requests because there was still a foetal heartbeat.

 

Mrs Halappanavar's death caused international controversy and sparked a campaign to have Ireland's abortion law liberalised.

This is what you're arguing for. Women to die because they are denied self determination.

[Daven 10]

Yeah I get that I suppose - still think it’s a bit of a grim subject all round.

 

It's even more grim for the poor women who get pregnant despite their best efforts and the pregnancy is unwanted.

Abortion is not an easy cop out - very painful and involves a lot of soul searching and courage from what I have seen both in my professional and personal life.

Edited May 28, 2018 by Daven