Almost £4b more in cuts coming in the budget.

[Guderian 10]

yes I see that im allright jack mentality oozing out of you lady

 

Isn't that the very definition of a Tory though?

 

It's rather simplistic but those who have and want to keep are Tory.

Those who do not have or who do have but also have a social conscience tend not to be Tory.

[sgtkate 10]

Isn't that the very definition of a Tory though?

 

It's rather simplistic but those who have and want to keep are Tory.

Those who do not have or who do have but also have a social conscience tend not to be Tory.

 

That's a bit over-simplified, and I'm definitely not a Tory. I just think it's 2 different ways of thinking. I doubt there are really that many people who don't want a fairer society they just have a massive difference in opinion as to how we get there.

 

Labour - companies and rich people can afford to pay more and they should. Believe that the poorest should get more financial support to improve 'fairness'.

 

Tories - companies create wealth and therefore should be taxed less to encourage growth. Poor people are scum who should starve responsible for themselves and if made to sort themselves will improve fairness as those who work get the benefit.

 

Very rough ideologies I'd say. Of course there are those who vote Labour who are selfish and base it on the amount of benefits they get. Then there are Tories who do the same with minimising taxes and maximising profit.

 

Neither are necessarily wrong as long as they take into account all different circumstances and situations and I actually think both sides are often too hung up on following an ideology rather than doing the 'right thing'. If we could prove increasing taxes on companies would generate more taxes paid would Osborne support that? I highly doubt it. Equally if Labour's policies could be shown to increase the numbers of people on benefits without good reason would that change Corbyn? Unlikely.

Edited March 18, 2016 by sgtkate

[Berberis 10]

There are also those who vote Tory based on the amount of benefits they get - i.e., many pensioners, the age group that supports the Tories most strongly. I don't recall any plans to revisit the "triple lock" in the Budget, though I suppose that time may come.

 

Not saying they don't deserve it, of course, quite the reverse. Just pointing out that the state pension is (a) a welfare benefit, and (b) costs more than tax credits, child benefit, disability allowances, JSA, etc. put together (according to figures compiled from DWP data by John Hills in his book "Good Times, Bad Times").

 

I'm guessing that many people don't think of the pension as a "welfare benefit", but that is exactly what it is.

 

Has Labour ever reduced the benefits bill for pensioners? From what I can remember, It was Labour who introduced the the Free TV license, Winter fuel allowances and dare I say it, the free bus pass. Was it not Labour who pegged pensions to the RPI? (I may be confusing that one).

 

I think the propensity of the old to vote Tory is due to how people change their political opinions with age. The Young are generally more liberal while the old are more conservative.

[hyper 10]

Those who do not have or who do have but also have a social conscience tend not to be Tory.

Ahem ...

I see the rich leftists who have money telling everyone that everything should be shared whilst living in castles and the poor leftists as those who never had the chance/ability/drive carrying a chip telling others who have worked to share what they've worked for.

 

The right wing might sell their grannies, but at least they'll admit to it

[sutty27 10]

 

The deficit went from 40bn to 160bn in under 2 years due to the crisis.

Osborne took over in 2010 pledging to eliminate the deficit by 2015. In 2014-15 he borrowed 88bn

 

Our current level of borrowing is higher than in 2008 at a point where we are supposed to be in surplus. In 2014-15 Osbone borrowed £1350 for every person in the country when he was supposed to be borrowing nothing.

 

Quite a mess.

 

Yes because of labours mismanagement of the economy and overspending in the public sector.

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 16:54 ----------

 

Both sides can use figures to show they are right. Labour can argue debt is higher, and the Tories can argue deficit is lower. Both are correct.

 

The deficit is the problem though because it is that that makes the debt grow.

[Flanker7 20]

Originally Posted by Guderian -Those who do not have or who do have but also have a social conscience tend not to be Tory.

 

Ahem ...

I see the rich leftists who have money telling everyone that everything should be shared whilst living in castles and the poor leftists as those who never had the chance/ability/drive carrying a chip telling others who have worked to share what they've worked for.

 

The right wing might sell their grannies, but at least they'll admit to it

 

You agree then.

......and you add some of your sweeping analysis of the leftists.

Add to that your opinion of the right wing.

I'm glad I don't live in your world.

 

That's a massive majority of the population you have just abused.

[I1L2T3 10]

Did I now?

 

Then how come you immediately follow the above with:

Now isn't that exactly what I said in my first sentence?

 

Now about:

and:

Personally, I'd have rather had Osbourne get the shock paddles out and run proper austerity, scorched earth and starving people in the street and all, to reset the economical and financial counters soonest on a clean base, rather than the soft landing and gradual take-off approach he's adopted, and the reason for which the UK has been dragging this deficit and interest on it like a ball and chain...but also the reason for which the UK is bouncing back better and faster than the rest. His policy has been, from day one and still, cashflow husbanding and management. Mine would have been bankruptcy and phoenixing in 2010.

 

But then, I was ready and prepared for it (full-on "I'm alright Jack" mode...or maybe schadenfreude, I'm not sure which - bite me either way, see if I care). And I'd have slept at night. Like a baby, because I'm way too cynical for my own good, and I certainly can be callous that way when the circumstances call for it.

 

Would you have slept at night? Honest answer, or don't bother.

 

Beyond that, I put above what I'd have done, were I in Osbourne's shoes. Now, what would you have done in Osbourne's shoes?

 

"la critique est aisée, mais l'art est difficile" Philippe Néricault, XVIIIth century. [ND: the criticism is easy, the art is difficult]

 

You went wrong because you are arguing that we are better placed now because the deficit has been reduced since 2010 wehereas if we were comparing the readiness of the economy to deal with another major shock the real comparison should be with 2008.

 

In 2008 we had a 40bn deficit. Right now it is double that. I would argue because of that and a host of other factors we are significantly less ready to cope.

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 17:50 ----------

 

Yes because of labours mismanagement of the economy and overspending in the public sector.

 

Actually it ballooned to 160bn because rapidly falling economic output led to less tax receipts, because welfare spending increased, because people lost their jobs, because of the costs of bailing out the banks and because of a fairly minor (given the scale of QE that followed) fiscal stimulus.

 

No matter how you try and pretend, the years 2009-10 and the second half of 2008 were not business as usual years for government spending and are characterised by a freak and infrequently seen 300% spike in deficit spending. None of it was planned.

 

I'm not defending Labour (far from it) but seriously if you are going to lie to yourself you'll never understand the problem.

Edited March 18, 2016 by I1L2T3

[lipschitz 12]

How about taking the 4 bn needed in tax cuts from the foreign aid budget? We still give 12 bn a year in foreign aid even though the MP' s tell us we need austerity measures.

[I1L2T3 10]

Tories could be in serious trouble, especially given the calibre of the opposition. One poll today has them neck and neck with Labour. Another has Labour just ahead

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn-handed-boost-labour-edges-conservatives-latest-poll-1550190

 

Of course we have to take polls with a pinch of salt given what happened in 2015 but Wednesday's budget looks to have been very damaging.

[sutty27 10]

Actually it ballooned to 160bn because rapidly falling economic output led to less tax receipts, because welfare spending increased, because people lost their jobs, because of the costs of bailing out the banks and because of a fairly minor (given the scale of QE that followed) fiscal stimulus.

 

No matter how you try and pretend, the years 2009-10 and the second half of 2008 were not business as usual years for government spending and are characterised by a freak and infrequently seen 300% spike in deficit spending. None of it was planned.

 

I'm not defending Labour (far from it) but seriously if you are going to lie to yourself you'll never understand the problem.

The banking bail out and QE money isn't included in the deficit figures and the mismanaged economy was an economy built on an housing bubble of biblical proportions that was always going to come crashing down.

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 19:50 ----------

 

Tories could be in serious trouble, especially given the calibre of the opposition. One poll today has them neck and neck with Labour. Another has Labour just ahead

 

http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/jeremy-corbyn-handed-boost-labour-edges-conservatives-latest-poll-1550190

 

Of course we have to take polls with a pinch of salt given what happened in 2015 but Wednesday's budget looks to have been very damaging.

 

No the country is in serious trouble if a labour government is voted back into office.

[I1L2T3 10]

The banking bail out and QE money isn't included in the deficit figures and the mismanaged economy was an economy built on an housing bubble of biblical proportions that was always going to come crashing down.

 

---------- Post added 18-03-2016 at 19:50 ----------

 

 

No the country is in serious trouble if a labour government is voted back into office.

 

The housing bubble never popped. It kind of deflated a little and has been pumped back up by Osborne.

 

I never said QE was included in the deficit figures. Some banks were financially bailed out and that was included in the deficit figures.

 

The Tories are in trouble.

[sutty27 10]

The housing bubble never popped. It kind of deflated a little and has been pumped back up by Osborne.

 

I never said QE was included in the deficit figures. Some banks were financially bailed out and that was included in the deficit figures.

 

The Tories are in trouble.

 

I said an economy built on an housing bubble of biblical proportions was always going to come crashing down, and there is no doubt that the economy crashed.

The cash injection into the bank bail outs wasn't part of the deficit.

The deficit increased because labour committed its self to massive spending on the public sector, spending that it couldn't afford after the economy built on an housing bubble of biblical proportions come crashing down.

 

No the country is in trouble and voting Labour will make matters worse.