Your Public Transport Nightmares

[geared 317]

Why don't we have double decker trains over here??

I've used them in other countries and they were great.

 

Wouldn't it solve some of our overcrowding issues?

 

Are they just too tall for our tunnels or something?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Why don't we have double decker trains over here??

I've used them in other countries and they were great.

 

Wouldn't it solve some of our overcrowding issues?

 

Are they just too tall for our tunnels or something?

 

 

Yes they are too big for most UK routes and they slow down the network because their 'dwell' time at a station is longer as they take significantly longer to fill and empty.

[tzijlstra 11]

At any point in your horrific saga did you look back and revaluate your choices?

 

Not actually trying to have a go (I really sympathise with that journey, it sounds awful), just interested.

 

If you did look back and still thought it was the right choice, then excellent!!

 

The whole thing was a disaster, longish story but here it is in full: The job I applied for was advertised as having a bonus for cold-work, 15 minute breaks every two hours and travel arrangements being provided.

 

When I started (and I did do the work for 3 months, it isn't like I didn't want to work) I was under the impression that the travel (4 hours a day) AND breaks (2 hours a day) would be paid for, that amounted to 14 hours a day, a compensation in a way for the fact that I found out in the contract the 'bonus' was only 7% on top of minimum wage instead of the wage advertised which was 150% + bonus (oh, we made an error said the lovely lass at the agency).

 

When I got my first paycheck I found out I was only getting paid for 8 hours a day, the breaks AND travel were unpaid for. I complained and the agency said it would look into it. They never did. So after three months of working for half minimum wage (effectively) and not having any life at all because I was working 6 14-hour days a week making a measly 800 guilders a month (less then I got previously on student-benefits, the payment all students in the Netherlands used to get just for being a student). This stunt of making me sweep the lot was just the drip that flooded the bucket.

 

I complained with the agency again, got nowhere again, contacted a solicitor and found out I had effectively been underpaid (modern day slavery was the potential charge, had it gone to court) by as much as I thought I had been. So in the end I received a 3000 guilder compensation package, which was handy as I needed a new PC and had just started my own business.

 

PS - the reason I was not getting paid for the 14 hours each day was that this would break all employment laws in the Netherlands, afterwards I found out there were multiple other charges I could have levied at them had it gone to court and 3000 guilders was a woeful underpayment for the potential punishment the agency would have received had I and my colleagues done so, but that is life - if you are dependent on rubbish jobs because you mucked about in your first degree you get done by the exploiters out there.

Edited March 13, 2016 by tzijlstra

[dutch 68]

Yes they are too big for most UK routes and they slow down the network because their 'dwell' time at a station is longer as they take significantly longer to fill and empty.

 

I put £1000 on that and will take you to Amsterdam and London to prove my point modern trains are more advanced smoother and faster than old fashioned UK trains that ironically are twice as expensive.

Edited March 14, 2016 by dutch

[DnAuK 10]

I was stuck for 2 and a half hours on a train yesterday morning on the approach to Midland Station.

 

It ruined my day and it looks like I'm only going to get a fiver in compensation. I'm wondering what other bad experiences people have endured. I'm convinced that public transport is particularly bad in South Yorkshire.

 

Apparently this was caused by some thieving scroates nicking all the signal cabling between Sheffield and Nottingham, so not S Yorks at all. Though it did pretty much take out the entire train network in the Sheffield area. It wasn't actually a fault of the train company though they are going to have to stump up some token compo for everyone involved.

 

Maybe if said thieving scroates are caught you could try to make a civil case against them for the rest?

Edited March 14, 2016 by DnAuK

[sgtkate 10]

I was once stuck on a train coming back from a conference in London that got held up twice. First the train broke down just outside of Kings Cross, so much so that the final carriage was still next to the platform! They wouldn't let anyone off the train so we sat there for 2 hours with no air con or windows that would open in the middle of August. Eventually they came around with warm bottles of water. We could have just all left the train safely by leaving through the rear doors of the last carriage but oh no we couldn't do that.

 

They finally got the train fixed and then there was a signalling fault which held us up for another hour. At least we had air con then though. When we finally arrived back in Donny station it was after midnight so no connections to Sheffield. Took me about 15 mins of arguing to get them to pay for a taxi for me to get back home as they were required to do...got home about 1am, then got a callout for a broken system at 3am and ended up having to work right through the next day until about 8pm...one of my worst days ever and I do not miss on call!

[Annie Bynnol 612]

I put £1000 on that and will take you to Amsterdam and London to prove my point modern trains are more advanced smoother and faster than old fashioned UK trains that ironically are twice as expensive.

 

 

Nearly all of the NS system uses 1500vDC electrification as used between Sheffield and Manchester up to the closure of Woodhead route( hence Tommy).

 

It is globally regarded as being an unsuitable and obsolete system and is planned to be replaced at huge cost. NS will have to re build all its locomotives and electric vehicles as the antiquated electrical system that is used at the moment is not suitable for faster, heavier and better accelerating trains which is required to integrate with the rest of Europe and (overhead UK system).

 

Average maximum NS line speed are much lower than the 25kV AC systems because of this and the decision to run a clock face timetable system. Line speeds into Amsterdam are nowhere higher than 86 mph and nationally only rare sections above 100mph.

 

London is ten times bigger than Amsterdam it has a go to work zone of 60 radius miles plus with main lines covering Leicester, Peterborough, Cambridge, Essex, Kent, Brighton, The Solent, Salisbury, Swindon, Banbury, Northampton etc.. A population area many times bigger than the Netherlands

It has a one of the largest metro systems in the world with headways of 3/4 minutes in places.

 

It did not benefit from post-war reconstruction or investment levels until the last two decades which have included a complete new fleet of underground and surface commuter trains.

New new railway lines- HS1, Bedford-Brighton, Crossrail, Oxford to Marylebone, GWML electrification and rebuilt Overground.

 

Technical bit: The greater number and higher density of stops in London and its surroundings means that increase in capacity is better dealt with by longer trains with more doors so that passengers get on/off more quickly. This is what has been invested in in the SE.

 

Double decker coaches do not carry anywhere near double the seats and have as much reduced standing capacity. The stairwells are disproportionally larger to cope with crush. They reduce line capacity if mixed with ordinary trains because of their much longer dwell time and poorer acceleration. There are many single deck trains in Amsterdam which are usually serving the local urban areas and are slowed down by DD trains if running late.

 

Now double decker coaches are very good on inter urban routes such as Amsterdam to Zandvoort which has limited stops in between and carries huge numbers from end to end. This applies to many places where the demand for A to Z journeys is very high compared to B to M, D to O etc which will be served by nodal services.

 

If a new transpennine tunnel was built DD trains could be a consideration. However both the private train operators and those that rent the trains out object to this on the grounds of inflexibility costs and capital cost and early redundancy because they cannot re-lease to other operators.

 

The preferred UK solution is longer trains with longer platforms. This is based on history, physical and human geography and of course money.

 

NS is highly regarded for its reliability as its Government has a much tighter grip on the franchise companies but is saddled with a outdated electrification system.

[dutch 68]

Nearly all of the NS system uses 1500vDC electrification as used between Sheffield and Manchester up to the closure of Woodhead route( hence Tommy).

 

It is globally regarded as being an unsuitable and obsolete system and is planned to be replaced at huge cost. NS will have to re build all its locomotives and electric vehicles as the antiquated electrical system that is used at the moment is not suitable for faster, heavier and better accelerating trains which is required to integrate with the rest of Europe and (overhead UK system).

 

Average maximum NS line speed are much lower than the 25kV AC systems because of this and the decision to run a clock face timetable system. Line speeds into Amsterdam are nowhere higher than 86 mph and nationally only rare sections above 100mph.

 

London is ten times bigger than Amsterdam it has a go to work zone of 60 radius miles plus with main lines covering Leicester, Peterborough, Cambridge, Essex, Kent, Brighton, The Solent, Salisbury, Swindon, Banbury, Northampton etc.. A population area many times bigger than the Netherlands

It has a one of the largest metro systems in the world with headways of 3/4 minutes in places.

 

It did not benefit from post-war reconstruction or investment levels until the last two decades which have included a complete new fleet of underground and surface commuter trains.

New new railway lines- HS1, Bedford-Brighton, Crossrail, Oxford to Marylebone, GWML electrification and rebuilt Overground.

 

Technical bit: The greater number and higher density of stops in London and its surroundings means that increase in capacity is better dealt with by longer trains with more doors so that passengers get on/off more quickly. This is what has been invested in in the SE.

 

Double decker coaches do not carry anywhere near double the seats and have as much reduced standing capacity. The stairwells are disproportionally larger to cope with crush. They reduce line capacity if mixed with ordinary trains because of their much longer dwell time and poorer acceleration. There are many single deck trains in Amsterdam which are usually serving the local urban areas and are slowed down by DD trains if running late.

 

Now double decker coaches are very good on inter urban routes such as Amsterdam to Zandvoort which has limited stops in between and carries huge numbers from end to end. This applies to many places where the demand for A to Z journeys is very high compared to B to M, D to O etc which will be served by nodal services.

 

If a new transpennine tunnel was built DD trains could be a consideration. However both the private train operators and those that rent the trains out object to this on the grounds of inflexibility costs and capital cost and early redundancy because they cannot re-lease to other operators.

 

The preferred UK solution is longer trains with longer platforms. This is based on history, physical and human geography and of course money.

 

NS is highly regarded for its reliability as its Government has a much tighter grip on the franchise companies but is saddled with a outdated electrification system.

 

You are only upset because you are paying double the price to travel back in time and use old fashioned noisy bumpy trains.

NS is not the only one out there, france Belgium Germany have also evolved much further than we have here in England.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

You are only upset because you are paying double the price to travel back in time and use old fashioned noisy bumpy trains.

NS is not the only one out there, france Belgium Germany have also evolved much further than we have here in England.

 

Being upset does not enable a person to undermine a point about train services into and out of London and Amsterdam.

 

Two new points have emerged:

"Noisy bumpy trains" - investment in the UK in large scale electrification and new routes have led to new build and a cascading fleet of modern stock unmatched in the EU. NS cannot even decide what voltage to use. Many non-TGV projects are on hold and the same applies to Germany. Belgium- they cannot decide on the future of their elderly 3000v DC system.

 

"...paying double the price..." - If you want to travel at peak morning times into our main conurbations you will find it expensive but this is more than balanced in this area by the availability of Advance and Travelcards and Railcards which few European railways have in such extensive numbers and which make planned journeys in the UK amongst the cheapest in Western Europe.

Tax support is much greater on the continent.

Overcrowding is a real problem and price is used to spread the load.

Government policy towards privatisation has not been without its problems- which is the same as in the Netherlands, Germany etc..

 

Unfortunately many of the benefits of modern rail travel have so far avoided Sheffield but we have the new TPE, Northern and upgraded EMT stock as well as the MML electrification soon.

 

So really nothing to get upset about particularly as UK rail has never had a better level of patronage and investment (which was Southern region electrification ) for 100 years.

[dutch 68]

When I take a train with NS I simply scan my oyster type card as tickets are no longer sold there anymore.

The trains are fast comfy smooth and more modern.

Even one of the few diesels that still exists there between Apeldoorn and zutphen is a supermodern diesel that peacefully glides like you are floating and manages to do this on a track similar to Sheffield Huddersfield.

When the destination is reached scan again and you pay a normal reasonable price for it.

 

We are being fooled by politicians and companies that we have to pay double for old stock and to book a ticket you only get deals when booking in advance on these silly websites, collect your tickets and if you miss that train or want to travel a different time you pay more than a flight to the Mediterranean.

Last time I booked Manchester airport to Sheffield I bought two cheap online tickets just in case there would be delays with the flight.

These two advance tickets were still half the price of an open single.

 

The system has gone crazy here and it does not look like it is gonna get any better.

NS has upgraded renewed their trains several times over years, UK just increases the price.

Edited March 15, 2016 by dutch

[Annie Bynnol 612]

When I take a train with NS I simply scan my oyster type card as tickets are no longer sold there anymore.

The trains are fast comfy smooth and more modern.

Even one of the few diesels that still exists there between Apeldoorn and zutphen is a supermodern diesel that peacefully glides like you are floating and manages to do this on a track similar to Sheffield Huddersfield.

When the destination is reached scan again and you pay a normal reasonable price for it.

 

We are being fooled by politicians and companies that we have to pay double for old stock and to book a ticket you only get deals when booking in advance on these silly websites, collect your tickets and if you miss that train or want to travel a different time you pay more than a flight to the Mediterranean.

Last time I booked Manchester airport to Sheffield I bought two cheap online tickets just in case there would be delays with the flight.

These two advance tickets were still half the price of an open single.

 

The system has gone crazy here and it does not look like it is gonna get any better.

 

Comparing Sheffield to Huddersfield and Apeldoorn to Zutphen is not comparing like with like.

 

Manchester Airport to Sheffield advance tickets are covered by a special condition which enables you to catch a later train. If your flight is delayed additionally you can claim on your travel insurance for the price difference.

[dutch 68]

Comparing Sheffield to Huddersfield and Apeldoorn to Zutphen is not comparing like with like.

 

Manchester Airport to Sheffield advance tickets are covered by a special condition which enables you to catch a later train. If your flight is delayed additionally you can claim on your travel insurance for the price difference.

 

Your comment sounds just like andy C. He also knows all these little public transport details and information.

For the extra £5 I cannot be bothered to play with travel insurance plans but I was not aware of the special condition.

 

By the way I do like the trains here in england very much as well. They are romantic, nostalgic, a poets inspiration as they clunk along with their historic rhythmic musical swaying motions.

I really don't dislike UK trains and do not prefer the newer more modern Dutch trains over our northern ones.

 

Our argument is about simple facts of technological development.

But we don't need to argue about which one is better because I rather have our old fashioned trains in England than the modern Dutch ones. Sheffield trains have more nostalgic character.

Just because something is technologically more advanced does not mean to me it is better.

Once on that Apeldoorn zutphen train the ride was so smooth I did not even notice it had left the station and had arrived in zutphen while I was reading a magazine.

Do I prefer that over a pacer? If everything in the future is going to be so smooth and comfortable might as wel stay in bed and watch it all on television.