University course and anti-gay Facebook post.

[Halibut 12]

18 minutes ago, woodview said:

It does, or should, unless you are inciting hatred.

His posts were an unfashionable and old fashioned view, which would limit his career in social care. But not worthy of being denied his right to an education.

Very narrow minded and dangerous path.

 

What about those codes of conduct in post 359?

[woodview 10]

42 minutes ago, Halibut said:

What about those codes of conduct in post 359?

The post doesn't tell us what those codes of conduct are. In any case, the vast majority of people would join a course either oblivious or just tick the box.

The point is, Universities are supposed to be a mix of educated people, learning and gaining new experiences from a mixture of people. If they can't tolerate someone who simply says he doesn't agree with gay marriage, it is a very sad, dangerous time.

Also, most of this intolerance seems to come from people who claim to be left wing or progressive or interested in freedom. Actions like this are far too common and are the complete opposite of freedom and libertarianism.

[Guest makapaka]

1 hour ago, woodview said:

The post doesn't tell us what those codes of conduct are. In any case, the vast majority of people would join a course either oblivious or just tick the box.

The point is, Universities are supposed to be a mix of educated people, learning and gaining new experiences from a mixture of people. If they can't tolerate someone who simply says he doesn't agree with gay marriage, it is a very sad, dangerous time.

Also, most of this intolerance seems to come from people who claim to be left wing or progressive or interested in freedom. Actions like this are far too common and are the complete opposite of freedom and libertarianism.

Should people be able to advocate Sharia law on university websites?

[woodview 10]

4 minutes ago, makapaka said:

Should people be able to advocate Sharia law on university websites?

Yes, if it isn't inciting criminal acts.

I disagree with Sharia law vehemently, and would do my upmost to stop it being used in this country. But if someone wants to talk about it in a legal way, then fair enough.

[Guest makapaka]

3 hours ago, woodview said:

Yes, if it isn't inciting criminal acts.

I disagree with Sharia law vehemently, and would do my upmost to stop it being used in this country. But if someone wants to talk about it in a legal way, then fair enough.

But sharia law involves things which are prejudicial to particular groups - so if someone openly advocates sharia law (not just “talks” about it as you suggest) then that is something you would disagree with and presumably want to do your upmost to stop?

[tinfoilhat 11]

2 minutes ago, makapaka said:

But sharia law involves things which are prejudicial to particular groups - so if someone openly advocates sharia law (not just “talks” about it as you suggest) then that is something you would disagree with and presumably want to do your upmost to stop?

You'd argue against it surely? Aren't universities centres of learning where topics are discussed and argued for and against?

 

Social worker guy is a different thing altogether though - if he was doing engineering or summat he should just have his views taken apart, but he's training to supposedly help the most vulnerable in society regardless of sexual preference. He clearly can't do that.

[woodview 10]

17 minutes ago, makapaka said:

But sharia law involves things which are prejudicial to particular groups - so if someone openly advocates sharia law (not just “talks” about it as you suggest) then that is something you would disagree with and presumably want to do your upmost to stop?

No. There are lots of things I disagree with, but I don't want people to not talk about them or advocate ideas I might find distasteful.

There are way too many people who want to silence voices they don't like.

As Tinfoil comments, a university is the exact place where acedemics should be able to discuss opinions openly, not be subject to political censorship.

15 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

 

Social worker guy is a different thing altogether though - if he was doing engineering or summat he should just have his views taken apart, but he's training to supposedly help the most vulnerable in society regardless of sexual preference. He clearly can't do that.

That would be for the prospective employer to decide. He might be employed by the catholic church, or be employed out of the subject area, where they just want a degree. Also, his views on gay marriage don't mean he isn't able to offer social care in areas where that isn't relevant.

[petemcewan 27]

The world is so full of hatred violence and intolerance, It makes me sad to read of this kind of homophobia. I'm  a Christian and a homosexual. l'm well aware that there are Christians and Atheists who hate me. I really don't care what they say about me privately or publically-life is too short . As far as I'm concerned homophobes can think and say whatever they please about me . I draw the line at them trying to kill me.

"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to hetros. That doesn't mean tha God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision" (C.L. Lavner).

 

If we were to take the Bible literally then we are all damned.

Edited March 12, 2019 by petemcewan

[woodview 10]

9 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

The world is so full of hatred violence and intolerance, It makes me sad to read of this kind of homophobia. I'm  a Christian and a homosexual. l'm well aware that there are Christians and Atheists who hate me. I really don't care what they say about me privately or publically-life is too short . As far as I'm concerned homophobes can think and say whatever they please about me . I draw the line at them trying to kill me.

"The Bible contains six admonishments to homosexuals and 362 admonishments to hetros. That doesn't mean tha God doesn't love heterosexuals. It's just that they need more supervision" (C.L. Lavner).

 

If we were to take the Bible literally then we are all damned.

You should be proud of both your religion and your sexuality, and it's good that you can shrug of what people say or think (within certain bounds)

I wouldn't jump to the conclusion of that particular guy hating you, he posted about supporting someone who wouldn't carry out same sex marriages.

I'm sure that guy would have as much to say about some of the things that I do / say / think too! I also don't give a monkeys about his opinion of the things I do.

 

What is your view on the action taken against him? It would be interesting to hear from someone who is more directly affected than most.

[tzijlstra 11]

On 11/03/2019 at 20:53, woodview said:

This guy was at university, so has been denied the opportunity of an education.

His views would probably have precluded him from employment at most organisations in social care roles. But an educational establishment throwing him out for his stated views is unacceptable in my opinion and does actually trample straight over any concept of free speech.

He is training for a professional career - there are consequences to breaching that responsibility during training. Most professional courses are (co-) accredited by professional bodies, that is what makes them University degrees. How would you feel about a doctor of medicine refusing to treat Christians because they are atheist?

14 hours ago, MAC33 said:

The precedent here is frightening.

 

Post on social media and if it's deemed not PC or inappropriate by the university you are not allowed to continue to study.

 

Most students in university will cower to their Orwell demands - were this case to be upheld.

Some, and I stress some, courses are only University courses because they have the backing of a professional body. See reply above.

 

To be clear - I strongly encourage Universities, and in particular Student Unions, to defend freedom of speech. This student had a right to representation from the Students Union and they would have been able to bring that point across. In the end however the decision lies with the programme leader of the course to judge whether the student is suitable to join their profession.

[petemcewan 27]

Woodview,

 

I think the action taken was "fair and proportionate". 

Tim (post 370) makes the points about the training he was undertaking and the profession he was embarking on.

Edited March 12, 2019 by petemcewan

[woodview 10]

44 minutes ago, petemcewan said:

Woodview,

 

I think the action taken was "fair and proportionate". 

Tim (post 370) makes the points about the training he was undertaking and the profession he was embarking on.

Ok, we'll have to agree to disagree.

I understand the proffesional aspect to a degree, I wouldn't consider disagreeing with same sex marriage as unprofessional to that extent though.

I think allowing people freedom of expression to be most important. That applies to expressing sexuality or expressing outdated views too. Repression isn't good in any form.