More than 85% of public tip offs on benefit 'frauds' are false

[apelike 10]

Benefits fraud can involve having undeclared income, undeclared income is tax fraud.

 

Undeclared income to the DWP is not tax fraud.

 

---------- Post added 29-02-2016 at 14:02 ----------

 

If someone enters your house without your knowledge and takes something without you knowledge they haven't actually committed the crime of theft until you are aware of it. Someone kills someone else and buries the body, the crime goes undetected so they haven't actually murdered anyone.

 

As far as the statistics go then yes that is correct. You cant report a crime until you know the crime has been done, even clairvoyants dont do that.

 

If someone kills someone and it goes undetected how do you know that have killed someone as its undetected? The clue is in the word undetected.

Edited February 29, 2016 by apelike

[foxy lady 10]

Burglary is a fairly socially important crime. :

 

It clearly is to you if it's your house. So which is the more important crime; one where someone steals a £200 TV set from your house or one where someone fiddles £10,000 in benefits that the rest of us pay for from our taxes?

 

http://www.cambridge-news.co.uk/Mum-daughter-St-Ives-court-15-000-benefit-fiddle/story-27448547-detail/story.html

[Cyclone 10]

It clearly is, to the public, because it MIGHT be your house.

 

That's an invalid comparison you're making though.

 

We're talking about resources that could be allocated to fighting benefit fraud or tax evasion, not burglary.

[Mister M 1,625]

People claiming benefits are generally genuine and in need of benefits. So that's why they claim ! The stuff you hear about in the daily mail etc is a tiny fraction of bad eggs.

So yes send a message out but don't put too much towards it because it's really a small fraction and doesn't bring any money in.

 

---------- Post added 29-02-2016 at 12:58 ----------

 

There's more in benefits that goes unclaimed.

 

Absolutely, and I wonder how much of the 'scroungermania' encouraged by the press and politicians contributes towards people feeling so stigmatised they don't claim what they're entitled to.

People don't get so hot under the collar about a poor single mum going without food because she feels shame in claiming her benefits.

[gomgeg 10]

Absolutely, and I wonder how much of the 'scroungermania' encouraged by the press and politicians contributes towards people feeling so stigmatised they don't claim what they're entitled to.

People don't get so hot under the collar about a poor single mum going without food because she feels shame in claiming her benefits.

Another windup from your own world.

The Jeremy Kyle show is still there to help find the fathers, who then being responsible people will no doubt be to willing to pay for the kids.

Another problem solved.

[sutty27 10]

Undeclared income to the DWP is not tax fraud.

 

If its not declared you won't be paying the right amount of tax, making it tax fraud.

 

As far as the statistics go then yes that is correct. You cant report a crime until you know the crime has been done, even clairvoyants dont do that.

 

If someone kills someone and it goes undetected how do you know that have killed someone as its undetected? The clue is in the word undetected.

 

The inability to report a crime wouldn't change the fact that a crime was committed. The murderer would know they murdered someone, the fact that no one else knows doesn't change the fact they committed the crime of murderer.

 

Fraud is the wrongful or criminal deception intended to result in financial or personal gain, its still fraud even when the fraudster gets away with it.

 

---------- Post added 29-02-2016 at 17:02 ----------

 

Absolutely, and I wonder how much of the 'scroungermania' encouraged by the press and politicians contributes towards people feeling so stigmatised they don't claim what they're entitled to.

People don't get so hot under the collar about a poor single mum going without food because she feels shame in claiming her benefits.

 

Its not just us Brits either, Polish press called a Polish women a scrounger for claiming British benefits.

 

She was positively surprised that she could obtain benefits from Britain for her son even though he lives in Warsaw.

 

She added that she doesn't see anything wrong with her child being supported by British taxpayers.

 

But she resents accusations which come from her fellow Polish people that she is lazy or a scrounger for taking hand outs from Britain.

[Dubaidani13 10]

Here's an interesting figure:

 

More than 85% of fraud allegations made by the public over the last five years were false. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/27/false-benefit-fraud-allegations

 

I was just wondering of people thought that some in the media and government are responsible for creating such a hostile and fevered atmosphere that anyone who claims a benefit is thought of as a cheat by neighbours or colleagues.

Also do people think that this fevered atmosphere and stigmatisation is responsible for the fact that recently, each year, every year, more than £16billion pounds worth of benefits and tax credits go unclaimed as people don't want to feel stigmatised.

 

How can we ensure that there isn't this suspicious climate in which people are falsely accused of being benefit fraudsters, and that people who are entitled to benefits receive them?

 

i wonder what percentage of the 85% was so difficult to prove due to varying reasons and sensitivities:suspect:

[foxy lady 10]

It clearly is, to the public, because it MIGHT be your house.

 

That's an invalid comparison you're making though.

 

We're talking about resources that could be allocated to fighting benefit fraud or tax evasion, not burglary.

 

You can talk about what you like and I'll talk about benefit fraud, burgulary and even murder if I like.

 

House burgulary isn't an issue. It wouldn't worry me too much if it were your house. If it were my house I would be compensated for the loss by the insurance company. It wouldn't really make much difference if the burgular was caught. I'd still have been burgled and I wouldn't lose financially either way.

 

But benefit fraud costs us all. We can't get insurance against it. I suspect it is only those who are commiting the fraud who think it shouldn't be clamped down on. I imagine there's quite a lot of them posting on here.

 

My step father was a business man. He told me that he would spend £10K chasing down a £5k debt, because that way folk would know he wasn't a soft touch, and the rest would go and try to defraud someone else instead. He didn't have to go to court very often.

Edited February 29, 2016 by foxy lady

[Eric Arthur 10]

i wonder what percentage of the 85% was so difficult to prove due to varying reasons and sensitivities:suspect:

 

It takes The Guardian three attempts with misleading descriptions before they get to the actual facts. http://www.theguardian.com/society/2016/feb/27/false-benefit-fraud-allegations

 

1. More than 85% of public tips on benefit 'frauds' are false [NOT TRUE]
   
2. Figures obtained by the Observer show that in the 1m alleged cases of benefit fraud put forward by the public, about 890,000 showed no fraud had taken place [NOT TRUE]
   
3. More than 85% of fraud allegations made by the public over the last five years were false, according to figures obtained by the Observer. [NOT TRUE]
    
   None of which is true.
   Finally we get to the actual truth
    
   
4. Insufficient or no evidence of fraud was discovered in 887,468 of these.
   

 

Even that is misleading because it is just a count of the number of incidents received through a questionnaire on the DWP website which means that there could be numerous reports about the same people. A more accurate report would be Between 0% and 85% of anonymous reports to the DWP website and phone line did not result in a successful prosecution for benefit fraud.

 

Anyone would think that The Guardian's is deliberately misleading of its readers.

[max 13]

So, people are still squabbling over the crumbs that fall off the table. If there were as much concern and TV programmes about corporate welfare scrounging we may possibly hit the real thieves.

[herbalharry 10]

People don't pay enough tax. If there was more tax revenue we could increase benefit pay outs and then there might be less fraud

[gomgeg 10]

People don't pay enough tax. If there was more tax revenue we could increase benefit pay outs and then there might be less fraud

I'm sure HMRC will be willing to accept your contribution. Do we take it from that your cheque will be in the post tomorrow.