Anti-vaccine attitudes based on that false claim still exist

[Eric Arthur 10]

We don't know what causes autism, so how do we know jabs aren't the cause of autism? What we do know is that there are far more cases of autism now than, let's say, a century ago.

Some autism causes aren't known, not all. Andrew Wakefield doesn't know what causes autism either, but there's no evidence that it is jabs. It could be exposure to football but definitely not exposure to cricket.

[sgtkate 10]

Is there an independent analysis of the pros and cons of vaccinations? Clearly Googling it just leads to all sorts of terrible websites with misinformation.

 

I am pro-vaccines, but equally it's possible that all of us are the brainwashed ones and the anti-vaxers are actually right. Unless someone independent has debunked the theories about mercury, lead etc etc then we can't be certain.

 

I'd be interested if anyone has any good, reliable and INDEPENDENT links to papers discussing this. It'd take a hell of a lot of research to make me into an anti-vaxer though!

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 10:24 ----------

 

We don't know what causes autism, so how do we know jabs aren't the cause of autism? What we do know is that there are far more cases of autism now than, let's say, a century ago.

 

Better diagnosis? We have far more people with AIDS/HIV than we did 100 years ago too, but that's because AIDS technically didn't exist 100 years ago. Autism was only 'discovered' in 1911 and not a medical diagnosis until the 1940s, so are you saying prior to 1911 no-one had autism or were they just not diagnosed with it? Correlation and causality.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Is there an independent analysis of the pros and cons of vaccinations? Clearly Googling it just leads to all sorts of terrible websites with misinformation.

 

All the peer review research is the independent analysis. Remember if a someone could find a link they'd be remember for their professional legacy, so the motivation to find a link is there, just not the evidence.

[Orzel 10]

Thats also an argument for letting the chronically stupid off wearing seatbelts if they promise to cut down on drink driving.

 

We can't make public health policy based on pandering to cretins.

You sir have made my day.

The MMR vaccines have mercury in them I don't know how that can be good thing for a child of 18 months

And it also accumulates in tuna. Beware.

How about chlorine and sodium. Lethal. Why they insist on putting that poison in our salt.

Vaccines are usually administered by a nurse in a room separate from others.

And then child is kept in solitary confinement for a few days without contact with others.

Have you been raised in high security prison or something?

[sgtkate 10]

All the peer review research is the independent analysis. Remember if a someone could find a link they'd be remember for their professional legacy, so the motivation to find a link is there, just not the evidence.

 

Fair enough point. I'm not a massive conspiracy theorist but was just wondering as some seemingly intelligent people are anti-vaxers and I wondered where they were getting their information from if not just making it up? Even if there was a small risk with vaccines, I can't see how those risks outweigh the (to me at least) benefits. The number of examples from around the world clearly demonstrate the problems when you stop vaccinating. Just one look at Polio rates in Pakistan should end the argument.

[Eric Arthur 10]

Is there an independent analysis of the pros and cons of vaccinations?

The total eradication or deadly diseases and the virtual elimination of many others should be enough. The anti-vaxxers seem to get their information from people like themselves instead of peer reviewed studies which just keep saying the same thing.

[tzijlstra 11]

The have been loads of research into searching for a link between MMR and autism, remember that MMR is widely used around the world, and as of yet no one has found and link.

 

Some autism causes aren't known, not all. Andrew Wakefield doesn't know what causes autism either, but there's no evidence that it is jabs. It could be exposure to football but definitely not exposure to cricket.

 

Is there an independent analysis of the pros and cons of vaccinations? Clearly Googling it just leads to all sorts of terrible websites with misinformation.

 

I am pro-vaccines, but equally it's possible that all of us are the brainwashed ones and the anti-vaxers are actually right. Unless someone independent has debunked the theories about mercury, lead etc etc then we can't be certain.

 

I'd be interested if anyone has any good, reliable and INDEPENDENT links to papers discussing this. It'd take a hell of a lot of research to make me into an anti-vaxer though!

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 10:24 ----------

 

 

Better diagnosis? We have far more people with AIDS/HIV than we did 100 years ago too, but that's because AIDS technically didn't exist 100 years ago. Autism was only 'discovered' in 1911 and not a medical diagnosis until the 1940s, so are you saying prior to 1911 no-one had autism or were they just not diagnosed with it? Correlation and causality.

 

The point I am making is that you can't claim that autism ISN'T caused by jabs. There is a blind faith in a lot of medical treatment that isn't necessarily justified. Exact science doesn't exist when it comes to highly complex factors.

 

Those that know autism (I lived with a severely autistic person for most of my life) know that there are lots of different forms and that it is very likely that what we all shove under the autistic spectrum is indeed subject to a diverse range of factors, dismissing any potential factors is naive until the exact triggers for all the exact forms of autism are demonstrated - this is incredibly difficult because many autists have not got the ability to communicate what they experience appropriately.

 

As long as we continue to know less about how the brain and consciousness works than we do about the moon we are not going to find out.

[sgtkate 10]

The point I am making is that you can't claim that autism ISN'T caused by jabs. There is a blind faith in a lot of medical treatment that isn't necessarily justified. Exact science doesn't exist when it comes to highly complex factors.

 

Those that know autism (I lived with a severely autistic person for most of my life) know that there are lots of different forms and that it is very likely that what we all shove under the autistic spectrum is indeed subject to a diverse range of factors, dismissing any potential factors is naive until the exact triggers for all the exact forms of autism are demonstrated - this is incredibly difficult because many autists have not got the ability to communicate what they experience appropriately.

 

As long as we continue to know less about how the brain and consciousness works than we do about the moon we are not going to find out.

 

You can't prove any negative so your point is moot. However, clearly any research is worthwhile. Also I can see that if someone DOES find a direct correlation and even causation between vaccines and autism that they'd never be believed so we are stuck in a catch-22.

[Eric Arthur 10]

The point I am making is that you can't claim that autism ISN'T caused by jabs. .

 

Maybe it is caused my meteorites? Or horses? Or those little silver balls on wedding cakes? None of them have been subject to peer review on their contribution to autism, unlike vaccines so the likelihood is much higher. I'd investigate the internet first though.

[onewheeldave 22]

I'm only mentioning this because you brought up your ASD as evidence backing up your position.

 

You need to consider that you may also have difficulty with cause and effect and have inflexibility of thought, so you often see world in concrete terms.

Yes. Black and white thinking, inflexible thought- these are things I'm definitely prone to. Being aware of that, I stay on the alert for them manifesting.

 

 

I believe that this is what is happening here. You've decided that the MMR vaccine is a bad thing, and there isn't any information that I can present that will change your mind.

 

I've not decided that the MMR vaccine is a bad thing, nor have I said it's a bad thing. I've said I believe it would have been a good move for the NHS to have focused less on trying to force parents to use it, and, instead, simply provided them access to the single vaccinations that many of them wanted.

 

---------- Post added 09-02-2016 at 11:29 ----------

 

We don't know what causes autism, so how do we know jabs aren't the cause of autism? What we do know is that there are far more cases of autism now than, let's say, a century ago.

 

I'd say there are more diagnoses of autism than in the past.

 

My hypothesis is that quite possibly autism hasn't grown, but, that the world with it's ever increasing systematisation and increasingly rigid procedures, is becoming more unbearable for those on the spectrum.

 

Certainly, I coped much better with the world 20 years ago. Back then, you could pick up a phone to a company, or benefits organisation, or NHS department, and, get through to a human being. Now you can't- you have to endure 10/20/30 minute waits on automated lines inflicting muzak and assurances that "your call is valued".

 

These are intolerable to many on the spectrum- they simply cannot access basic services.

 

Same with employment- in the past, those on the spectrum could end up working flexible jobs in boatyards, scrapyards, little company offices etc. Now it's becoming necessary to do courses, have CVs for every job.

 

The modern world is impossibly tough for many of us on the spectrum- I believe it's forcing many on the spectrum, who, previously could have found a niche in society, to develop to mental health issues that lead to them getting diagnosed.

[cgksheff 44]

You might want to have a read.

 

 

http://www.vaccines.news/2016-01-05-discover-the-deadly-truth-behind-flu-shots.html

 

You might want to learn to read as well.

 

The NHS MMR vaccine does not contain mercury as claimed by the poster.

[Orzel 10]

Fair enough point. I'm not a massive conspiracy theorist but was just wondering as some seemingly intelligent people are anti-vaxers and I wondered where they were getting their information from if not just making it up? Even if there was a small risk with vaccines, I can't see how those risks outweigh the (to me at least) benefits. The number of examples from around the world clearly demonstrate the problems when you stop vaccinating. Just one look at Polio rates in Pakistan should end the argument.

 

1. Vaccines carry small risk and not having it causes no risk of side effects.

2.You benefit very little by being vaccinated if all others are and were vaccinated for generation or two as there is almost no risk of catching whatever that vaccine is for.