TV licence thread

[I1L2T3 10]

5 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

What and to whom were things handed to on a plate?

It certainly isn't the "baby boomers" who created pensions, education and health fo all but they were the ones who pushed back at Tory attempts to trim, reduce, backslide etc.

It was the baby boomers who voted in legislation on rights, on disability, on employment law, on access to health, education and law.

When you attend events aimed at protecting these rights, where is the next generation, or the next, or the next.

 

Protecting pensions, health and education is not about mass festival like rallies, the occaisional outpouring of twitter angst.

It is about not "falling out" about TV licenses, bus passes and winter heating- these have become the tools of successive Governments who measure success by how attractive we are to foreign investment- not the welfare of the country.

 

We should stop doing the Tory's industrial and commercial cronies jobs for them.

 

 

 

 

 

It doesn’t change the one massive basic fact that if you are beyond a certain age you have benefitted massively compared to our younger generations. And it doesn’t change the fact that a massive proportion of older people now expect younger generations to continue funding them.

 

Breaking news: we can’t afford to do it if you insist on continuously voting in huge numbers to weaken the economy.

 

That is what frames this discussion. It’s unavoidable. 

2 hours ago, Michael_W said:

What a strange divisive attitude to take, if sections of society keep looking for fights inevitably they will happen, and which generation has not suffered job losses may I ask ? 

It would  easier not to have to fight for them if older generations accept that everybody should benefit, and stop voting in huge numbers to pull up the drawbridge.

 

If you want something for free then don’t hobble the people you expect to fund it for you. It’s really that blindingly  simple

Edited June 17, 2019 by I1L2T3

[Annie Bynnol 612]

59 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

It doesn’t change the one massive basic fact that if you are beyond a certain age you have benefitted massively compared to our younger generations. And it doesn’t change the fact that a massive proportion of older people now expect younger generations to continue funding them.

 

Breaking news: we can’t afford to do it if you insist on continuously voting in huge numbers to weaken the economy.

 

That is what frames this discussion. It’s unavoidable. 

It would  easier not to have to fight for them if older generations accept that everybody should benefit, and stop voting in huge numbers to pull up the drawbridge.

 

If you want something for free then don’t hobble the people you expect to fund it for you. It’s really that blindingly  simple

Please tell me what the "...certain age..." is.

Please tell me who to vote for in order to not "...weaken the economy..."

[bendix 10]

To be honest, I have some sympathy for I1L2T3's psition on this.

 

I dont understand why a TV licence should be free, without being means-tested.  If the over 75s are genuinely on the breadline, fine.  Give it to them for free.  But I'm surrounded by retired people living in £750,000 homes with volvos parked outside.  I'm struggling to see the moral justification for making it free for them.

[I1L2T3 10]

13 minutes ago, bendix said:

To be honest, I have some sympathy for I1L2T3's psition on this.

 

I dont understand why a TV licence should be free, without being means-tested.  If the over 75s are genuinely on the breadline, fine.  Give it to them for free.  But I'm surrounded by retired people living in £750,000 homes with volvos parked outside.  I'm struggling to see the moral justification for making it free for them.

Indeed. I’d sooner all over 75s got it free but we are approaching snapping point with funding these kinds of things.

 

Older generations are known to be voting in huge numbers for policies that will weaken the economy. They can’t have it both ways. The money has to come from somewhere.

28 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Please tell me what the "...certain age..." is.

Please tell me who to vote for in order to not "...weaken the economy..."

Isn’t the boomer generation those born up to about ‘64

 

Don’t vote for parties that promote austerity and Brexit. Older generations seem happy to volunteer the rest of us for misery by doing so

[Annie Bynnol 612]

48 minutes ago, I1L2T3 said:

Indeed. I’d sooner all over 75s got it free but we are approaching snapping point with funding these kinds of things.

 

Older generations are known to be voting in huge numbers for policies that will weaken the economy. They can’t have it both ways. The money has to come from somewhere.

Isn’t the boomer generation those born up to about ‘64

 

Don’t vote for parties that promote austerity and Brexit. Older generations seem happy to volunteer the rest of us for misery by doing so

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Just to make things clear about the selfishness of this 'baby boomer'  generation.

People currently aged between 55 and 75 helped vote out the Tory MP and the Tory Councillors in this City.

They voted several times in a Referendum and in General Elections to join and have closer ties with Europe.

They have paid as much or more income tax than any other generation.

They have paid far higher levels of interest on their mortgages than any subsequent generation.

They have been through the times of highest unemployment in modern times.

It is this generation who pushed for Civil and Equal rights and opportunities and has had the biggest impact on social change in modern times.

It was this generation who were prepared to engage industrial and civil protest to promote and protect what had been gained.

Are not the steelworkers, miners and their support groups "baby boomers"?

Why have (and still are by the looks of it) subsequent generation falling for the tactics of the divide and rule.

 

It is with great sadness that following generations have not engaged themselves in a similar manner. 

 

The comments on here by some have very little to do with bus passes and TV licences but smack of Tory propaganda feeding  a jealously designed to undermine our country.

I am in your union meetings, I am on your demonstrations, I do stand up for your rights.  

 

 

 

 

 

Edited June 17, 2019 by Annie Bynnol

[Sidonica 10]

Well said Annie. I am 70,  working class,  voted remain and am sick of the comments about the mess we are in being all 'our' fault'. If those who couldn't  be bothered to vote had made an effort to go to the polling station we might well not be in this mess.

[I1L2T3 10]

55 minutes ago, Annie Bynnol said:

Thank you for your prompt reply.

Just to make things clear about the selfishness of this 'baby boomer'  generation.

People currently aged between 55 and 75 helped vote out the Tory MP and the Tory Councillors in this City.

They voted several times in a Referendum and in General Elections to join and have closer ties with Europe.

They have paid as much or more income tax than any other generation.

They have paid far higher levels of interest on their mortgages than any subsequent generation.

They have been through the times of highest unemployment in modern times.

It is this generation who pushed for Civil and Equal rights and opportunities and has had the biggest impact on social change in modern times.

It was this generation who were prepared to engage industrial and civil protest to promote and protect what had been gained.

Are not the steelworkers, miners and their support groups "baby boomers"?

Why have (and still are by the looks of it) subsequent generation falling for the tactics of the divide and rule.

 

It is with great sadness that following generations have not engaged themselves in a similar manner. 

 

The comments on here by some have very little to do with bus passes and TV licences but smack of Tory propaganda feeding  a jealously designed to undermine our country.

I am in your union meetings, I am on your demonstrations, I do stand up for your rights.  

 

 

 

 

 

None of that changes the fact that the situation right now is that huge numbers of older people are repeatedly voting for things that make us poorer. 

 

This is creating a ticking time bomb of resentment. 

 

You arguing with me won’t change that. It’s like arguing you built us the best house ever then took a can of petrol and a match to it, expecting  the rest of to all still to be grateful when it burns down.

 

 

31 minutes ago, Sidonica said:

Well said Annie. I am 70,  working class,  voted remain and am sick of the comments about the mess we are in being all 'our' fault'. If those who couldn't  be bothered to vote had made an effort to go to the polling station we might well not be in this mess.

If you read carefully I’m talking about a section of the older population, not all of the older population

 

Who do you think can persuade them they are wrong?

Edited June 17, 2019 by I1L2T3

[Lockdoctor 10]

2 hours ago, bendix said:

To be honest, I have some sympathy for I1L2T3's psition on this.

 

I dont understand why a TV licence should be free, without being means-tested.  If the over 75s are genuinely on the breadline, fine.  Give it to them for free.  But I'm surrounded by retired people living in £750,000 homes with volvos parked outside.  I'm struggling to see the moral justification for making it free for them.

With due respect, if you're really surrounded by retired people living in £750,000 homes then you don't live in an average area of the UK which reflects how average retired people over the age of 75 live.

 

It;s not really difficult to understand  why there is a good argument for a TV licence to remain free  for all  pensioners over 75 rather than introduce means testing. It has been pointed out  in the media that if means testing is introduced  for pensioners to continue to receive  free TV licences then those same pensioners approved for a free TV licence will also be made aware of other benefits  they are entitled to and the taxpayer is more likely to be more burdened.

[Cyclone 10]

50 minutes ago, Lockdoctor said:

With due respect, if you're really surrounded by retired people living in £750,000 homes then you don't live in an average area of the UK which reflects how average retired people over the age of 75 live.

 

It;s not really difficult to understand  why there is a good argument for a TV licence to remain free  for all  pensioners over 75 rather than introduce means testing. It has been pointed out  in the media that if means testing is introduced  for pensioners to continue to receive  free TV licences then those same pensioners approved for a free TV licence will also be made aware of other benefits  they are entitled to and the taxpayer is more likely to be more burdened.

There's a good reason to means test it by the sounds of it.  Because there clearly are pensioners, many of them in the south of the country who live in houses worth considerably more than that, and have pension paying them 50k+ a year.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

1 hour ago, I1L2T3 said:

None of that changes the fact that the situation right now is that huge numbers of older people are repeatedly voting for things that make us poorer. 

 

This is creating a ticking time bomb of resentment. 

That is and always has been the situation.

Resentment of the opportunities and preferences given to certain groups and sections of society after both wars bred the 60s revolution which led to a confrontation between old and young on a far bigger scale.

There are dozens of variations on the differences between young and old revolving around idealism, possesions, fairness, conservative attitude, fear of change etc.

There is a deep sympathy with the under 30s amongst the baby boomers.  They see the job insecurity,  career opportunities, pension provision, student debt etc. 

 

The current generation of  young will get huge support from the babyboomers if they use their enthusiasm to create a "better world". They would be applauded for picking up the baton- again.

[melthebell 864]

1 hour ago, Lockdoctor said:

With due respect, if you're really surrounded by retired people living in £750,000 homes then you don't live in an average area of the UK which reflects how average retired people over the age of 75 live.

 

It;s not really difficult to understand  why there is a good argument for a TV licence to remain free  for all  pensioners over 75 rather than introduce means testing. It has been pointed out  in the media that if means testing is introduced  for pensioners to continue to receive  free TV licences then those same pensioners approved for a free TV licence will also be made aware of other benefits  they are entitled to and the taxpayer is more likely to be more burdened.

so give people who dont need it free money as its easier?

[max 13]

I should imagine that a system to means test people would be far more complicated than it sounds. It should be a simple matter for whichever department holds details of people's entitlement to Pensions Credits, name, address and age to produce a file for the BBC system to read showing who is and who isn't on Pension Credit and over 75. However, once you start looking to include information about income levels and how much their houses are worth it becomes a much more complicated IT endeavour.

 

It wouldn't be limited to government departments either, you'd need to garner information from private pension schemes, investment brokers, land registry for valuations, whether or not they have more than one house or lodgers, etc., etc. The list is endless.