'Smart' Motorways.

[tinfoilhat 11]

7 hours ago, Brooker11 said:

Interesting to see that MP’s are now calling for these to be totally suspended after 5 deaths in 16 months between J30 and 35. The AA have also said they will not carry out roadside assistance on smart motorways.

 

Are the usual naysayers on here still for them?

There are smart motorways and there are smart motorways. The M42 has lots of full-width gantries and is lit for large parts of it. Compare that to the unlit stretch between 31 and 28 with far less signage. 

[nightrider 13]

On 28/10/2019 at 11:49, Janus said:

I was reading an  RAC forum yesterday. There was/or is a petition for the police to cease stopping vehicles on the hard shoulder. The suggestion being put forward was to escort them off the motorway before dealing with minor traffic violations.

 

It was not clear how the police would potentially communicate their request to the driver. Maybe it was felt that once stopped the police would simply tell the driver to leave the motorway at the next exit?

 

 

 

I know someone who was actually lectured for trying to stop on the hard shoulder when they put on the sirens - the policeman explained it was dangerous and that they should never do that. He went on to explain they will know if we want you to pull over because we will be taking more direct action than driving behind you with a siren on. This was Thames police, and it may vary with the force as to what is done.

[Longcol 594]

On 23/01/2020 at 13:48, tinfoilhat said:

There are smart motorways and there are smart motorways. The M42 has lots of full-width gantries and is lit for large parts of it. Compare that to the unlit stretch between 31 and 28 with far less signage. 

From this report it would appear that the M42 where smart motorways were trialled has much higher standards than elsewhere.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/26/uks-smart-motorways-to-be-reviewed-after-increase-in-near-misses

 

That near misses on broken down vehicles have increased 20 fold on the M25 since the introduction of "smart motorways" is horrific.

[tinfoilhat 11]

IF memory serves it's not got loads of signs on it. According to Panarama, 38 people have been killed on smart motorways in 5 years. I'd be keen on finding out where these fatalities happened and how many were killed in the same period on motorways with a hard shoulder. Half a story im afraid.

[Lex Luthor 10]

My child had an awful accident whilst we were on a section of 'dumb motorway' with no hard shoulder.  We needed to pull over and attend to him immediately.  The other kids were screaming.  I was in an awful state and there was nowhere to pull in to attend to my son.  My partner felt compelled to drive to the next exit.  It was absolute hell.  We must bring the hard shoulder back for all sections of motorway.  It was an absolutely stupid idea in the first place.  If there's a petition anywhere, I'll sign.

[DT Ralge 10]

6 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

IF memory serves it's not got loads of signs on it. According to Panarama, 38 people have been killed on smart motorways in 5 years. I'd be keen on finding out where these fatalities happened and how many were killed in the same period on motorways with a hard shoulder. Half a story im afraid.

Indeed, 38 in 5 years out of a quick estimate of 450 in total on all motorways in the same 5 years. 
(I haven’t looked at every year’s figures but m-w deaths are at a 5-6% level of the total (whole is around 1750-1790).  2017 saw 99 die on motorways)
... but there’s a lot more detail to come out of all of this, far more than just numbers for anyone to take a view on relative safety levels. 
 

for starters, the hard shoulder is the most dangerous lane of all lanes ... why is that?

Edited January 27, 2020 by DT Ralge

[DT Ralge 10]

16 hours ago, Longcol said:

From this report it would appear that the M42 where smart motorways were trialled has much higher standards than elsewhere.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/26/uks-smart-motorways-to-be-reviewed-after-increase-in-near-misses

 

That near misses on broken down vehicles have increased 20 fold on the M25 since the introduction of "smart motorways" is horrific.

I hold no brief for smart motorways so please don’t interpret any of my comments in that way.   As a driver trainer, I don’t see breaking down as a random event (“it was my turn to break down today”, nah) or accept driver excuses at face value for not seeing a broken down vehicle.  Furthermore, on all types of road, I see broken down motorists and their families standing in dangerous positions ...
 

But, having been in a HA control centre at Ilkeston, I’m wondering just how this “increase in near misses” (strange term) can be substantiated by evidence before and after the introduction of smart motorways. 

[DT Ralge 10]

A simple google reveals we have 2200 miles of which 200 are “smart”.
So over the 5 years in question 200/38 = 5.26 miles of “Smart” per death. 
As opposed to 2000/450 = 4.85 miles  of traditional m/w’s per death. 
What’s driving the “smart motorways aren’t that smart” agenda?  Drivers’ realisation of their own failings?

Edited January 27, 2020 by DT Ralge

[Longcol 594]

24 minutes ago, DT Ralge said:

A simple google reveals we have 2200 miles of which 200 are “smart”.
So over the 5 years in question 200/38 = 5.26 miles of “Smart” per death. 
As opposed to 2000/450 = 4.85 miles  of traditional m/w’s per death. 
What’s driving the “smart motorways aren’t that smart” agenda?  Drivers’ realisation of their own failings?

Are we comparing like with like?

 

Most victims on "smart motorways"  were struck by other drivers after they broke down in speeding traffic and could not find a safe place to stop.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/27/smart-motorways-scandal-highways-agency-facing-police-probe/

 

How many of the 450 deaths on "traditional" motorways were due to lack of a safe place to stop?

[Pettytom 1]

7 minutes ago, Longcol said:

Are we comparing like with like?

 

Most victims on "smart motorways"  were struck by other drivers after they broke down in speeding traffic and could not find a safe place to stop.

 

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/01/27/smart-motorways-scandal-highways-agency-facing-police-probe/

 

How many of the 450 deaths on "traditional" motorways were due to lack of a safe place to stop?

In a way, all of them were. There isn’t much more unsafe about a place than getting killed there.

 

However, given a choice of the hard shoulder and hopping over the barrier, compared to sitting in lane  one , praying. I know which option I’d take.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Just now, Pettytom said:

In a way, all of them were. There isn’t much more unsafe about a place than getting killed there.

 

However, given a choice of the hard shoulder and hopping over the barrier, compared to sitting in lane  one , praying. I know which option I’d take.

I’m out of the passenger side and up that embankment quicker than a greased weasel. Interesting I noticed an old couple halfway up an embankment near 29a when their car broke down. Looked behind me (I was a passenger) and the sign wasn’t on advising of a broken down vehicle. How long does it take?

[Longcol 594]

4 minutes ago, tinfoilhat said:

I’m out of the passenger side and up that embankment quicker than a greased weasel. Interesting I noticed an old couple halfway up an embankment near 29a when their car broke down. Looked behind me (I was a passenger) and the sign wasn’t on advising of a broken down vehicle. How long does it take?

"Research by the AA suggests it takes an average of 17 minutes for highway authorities to spot a stopped vehicle"

 

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/jan/26/uks-smart-motorways-to-be-reviewed-after-increase-in-near-misses