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'Smart' Motorways.

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We drove on the first completed section of the M1 "smart motorway" today, and I have to say I`m rather unimpressed, in fact I`m rather concerned about it.....

 

In the past we`ve driven on the M42 "smart motorway" quite often, and I have to say I was never very enthusiastic about it. I like the fact hard shoulders give you somewhere (relatively) safe to stop should you break down on a road with three lanes of traffic moving at up to 80mph or more. However, I was placated a bit by the fact that when the hard shoulder is in use the speed limit drops to 50mph and is apparently rigorously enforced by speed cameras.

 

Unless I`ve got this completely wrong, and West Yorks Police say I`m right, the M1 (not so) "smart motorway" is something entirely different, and I can see why local MPs and the South Yorks Chief Constable objected to it on safety grounds. Today, as we drove up it, none of the signs were on, much less indicating 50mph, yet traffic was doing 70mph or more in all four lanes, i.e. including what was the hard shoulder. Apparently that is how it`s supposed to work, rather different from the M42 "smart(er) motorway".

I agree with the SY Chief constable it should never have been allowed, it`s a straightforward trade off, more capacity for less safety and done on the cheap. I think it`s particularly dangerous in times of restricted visibility (e.g. at night) but also when driving behind a large vehicle and thus the drivers view of the road ahead is restricted.

As an aside, I did wonder, when it`s so basic, why it`s all taken so long to adapt the motorway.....

 

One last thing, normally I prefer to drive in the inside lane (provided it`s reasonably empty), but as far as I`m concerned the inside lane will now be what should be the hard shoulder (i.e. where broken down vehicles may lurk hidden from view by the artics which normally inhabit that lane.....), so I`ll be rather less keen to drive in it, particularly at night.

 

Addition (16 Feb 16) : Senior police road traffic officers criticise permanent all lane running (i.e. no hard shoulder) on motorways.

 

And they just keep coming don`t they (reasons why no hard shoulder 4 lane running is a bad idea) ! Apparently up to 7% of drivers don`t actually leave the (ex) hard shoulder when it`s signed as closed........

 

Yet more : when you hear "they`ll instantly change the speed limit if you break down" and "hardly anyone will breakdown out of the refuge areas", it`s rubbish.

 

And, apparently, both the AA and RAC refuse to attend breakdowns in a live lane (even if a red X is present) due to the danger, unless a physical barrier to protect them is put in place........

 

What, even more ? Oh yes. The police say having no hard shoulder makes it very difficult / dangerous to stop any vehicle on the motorway.

Edited by nikki-red
Police : How do you stop a vehicle withot a hard shoulder

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i think it's great, they just need to complete the bit between junctions 41 and 42 and it will be perfect.

 

The volume of traffic using the m1 isn't actually that great, much of the delays on the old M1 were caused by traffic joining the motorway at junctions 39, 40 and 41 and traffic trying to leave at j42 to join the m62.

 

the extra lane will allow joining traffic to merge into the main flow easily and safely without slowing down the traffic approaching the junction.

 

when complete the northbound j41-42 stretch will provide 5 lanes, 1 lane for the m62 east, 1 for the m62 west and 3 for traffic going north to leeds and beyond.

 

the extra lane will allow the inter-junction traffic to spread out more and so be much safer.

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I thought there are now lay-bys every few hundred yards to make up for the use of the hard shoulder as a lane.

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I thought there are now lay-bys every few hundred yards to make up for the use of the hard shoulder as a lane.

 

there are ...................

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I drove it the other day and there was at least 1km between some of the refuges. IIRC someone on here said it wasn't being actively monitored like the sections further south.

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I drove it the other day and there was at least 1km between some of the refuges. IIRC someone on here said it wasn't being actively monitored like the sections further south.

 

It might be yet, it's not fully finished to the best of my knowledge.

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I just wish they would get on with all of it and finish the damn thing so we can get on with our lives instead of having to daily sit in a traffic jam every time you have to go down the motorway, its been dragging on for far to long now costing money and causing accidents and inconvenience for thousands of people everyday and for what just one extra lane and sommore gantry lights and signs I can never remember any problems with the motorway there before they started the thing ridiculous waste of money...:rant:

Edited by Shogun

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I also think that the drainage isn't right bear junction 31. I know the weather is bad but I keep seeing the same patch of standing water just after the junction.

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It might be yet, it's not fully finished to the best of my knowledge.

 

Well they've opened it so I assume this is how it`s supposed to work. I was so amazed that there is no hard shoulder even with no 50mph limit that I phoned the West Yorks police who confirmed that is how it`s supposed to work. As I stated before I can see now why there were MPs and even the SY Police Chief Constable who were not in favour of it. I`m not either.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 09:24 ----------

 

i think it's great, they just need to complete the bit between junctions 41 and 42 and it will be perfect.

 

The volume of traffic using the m1 isn't actually that great, much of the delays on the old M1 were caused by traffic joining the motorway at junctions 39, 40 and 41 and traffic trying to leave at j42 to join the m62.

 

the extra lane will allow joining traffic to merge into the main flow easily and safely without slowing down the traffic approaching the junction.

 

when complete the northbound j41-42 stretch will provide 5 lanes, 1 lane for the m62 east, 1 for the m62 west and 3 for traffic going north to leeds and beyond.

 

the extra lane will allow the inter-junction traffic to spread out more and so be much safer.

 

What can I say other than I do not agree with you. I could just about cope with the M42 (enforced 50mph limit when no hard shoulder) "smart motorway" * but the M1`s version is a cheapskate less safe (and far more stressful) alternative. The SY Police Chief Constable was right, it should never have been opened.

 

* I`d rather have had a 4 lane plus hard shoulder motorway to be frank.

Edited by Justin Smith

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Well they've opened it so I assume this is how it`s supposed to work. I was so amazed that there is no hard shoulder even with no 50mph limit that I phoned the West Yorks police who confirmed that is how it`s supposed to work. As I stated before I can see now why there were MPs and even the SY Police Chief Constable who were not in favour of it. I`m not either.

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 09:24 ----------

 

 

What can I say other than I do not agree with you. I could just about cope with the M42 (enforced 50mph limit when no hard shoulder) "smart motorway" * but the M1`s version is a cheapskate less safe (and far more stressful) alternative. The SY Police Chief Constable was right, it should never have been opened.

 

* I`d rather have had a 4 lane plus hard shoulder motorway to be frank.

 

So what indicated that the hard shoulder was open for 'normal' driving if there were no speed limit signs? Just wondering if there was a fault with the system? The hard shoulder should *only* be opened up in times of high congestion and that would also require a managed lower than NSL speed limit as well. Sounds like something isn't right here...I rarely agree with you on a car thread but I've always disliked the usage of the hard shoulder as a normal lane to help solve congestion, but compromises have to be made and the cost to the economy of traffic jams is very high, which equally makes a mockery of how blooming long the whole thing has taken!

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I drove it the other day and there was at least 1km between some of the refuges. IIRC someone on here said it wasn't being actively monitored like the sections further south.

 

And most importantly there is no enforced 50mph limit when the hard shoulder is being used.

Interestingly, just before the start of the "(not so) smart" section we saw not one but two cars pulled over for speeding within a few hundred yards. I can`t remember when I saw that last, maybe the W Yorks police are really clamping down on speeding over that stretch.

I had to laugh, one was a German car (what a surprise) which had been stopped by a marked police car, which reminded me of a comment I once heard from a traffic copper "any driver stopped for speeding by a marked police car should not only be prosecuted for speeding they should be done for driving without due care and attention as well ! " So much for the argument "speeding isn`t less safe because the driver are concentrating more", if that Merc driver was concentrating I`d hate to share the road with him when he wasn`t !

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 09:35 ----------

 

So what indicated that the hard shoulder was open for 'normal' driving if there were no speed limit signs? Just wondering if there was a fault with the system? The hard shoulder should *only* be opened up in times of high congestion and that would also require a managed lower than NSL speed limit as well. Sounds like something isn't right here...I rarely agree with you on a car thread but I've always disliked the usage of the hard shoulder as a normal lane to help solve congestion, but compromises have to be made and the cost to the economy of traffic jams is very high, which equally makes a mockery of how blooming long the whole thing has taken!

 

I phoned the W Yorks police, that is how it`s supposed to work, i.e. no hard shoulder available at any time and a 70mph limit. One assumes that if a vehicle breaks down the operators will see it and flash up a 50mph limit, but let`s just hope that by then nobody has hit the unfortunate motorist, particularly at night when visibility is down to what, 50 to 100 yards at best ?

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And most importantly there is no enforced 50mph limit when the hard shoulder is being used.

Interestingly, just before the start of the "(not so) smart" section we saw not one but two cars pulled over for speeding within a few hundred yards. I can`t remember when I saw that last, maybe the W Yorks police are really clamping down on speeding over that stretch.

I had to laugh, one was a German car (what a surprise) which had been stopped by a marked police car, which reminded me of a comment I once heard from a traffic copper "any driver stopped for speeding by a marked police car should not only be prosecuted for speeding they should be done for driving without due care and attention as well ! " So much for the argument "speeding isn`t less safe because the driver are concentrating more", if that Merc driver was concentrating I`d hate to share the road with him when he wasn`t !

 

---------- Post added 04-01-2016 at 09:35 ----------

 

 

I phoned the W Yorks police, that is how it`s supposed to work, i.e. no hard shoulder available at any time and a 70mph limit. One assumes that if a vehicle breaks down the operators will see it and flash up a 50mph limit, but let`s just hope that by then nobody has hit the unfortunate motorist, particularly at night when visibility is down to what, 50 to 100 yards at best ?

 

Then that's a truly terrible solution isn't it? Can anyone on here see the benefit of removing a safety feature (hard shoulder) and replacing it with a lane when there is no congestion? I hope the S Yorks bit when finished does it properly.

 

And now stop with the digs about German cars. I'd say people with cheap, crap old cars are more dangerous as they don't care about damage to their own cars. We can both make wildly inaccurate assumptions can't we? Now back to the M1 smart motorway.

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