Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[Guest busdriver1]

I find this all amusing. So the plan is to spend a fortune building a railway to attract businesses to the northern powerhouse, no doubt those businesses would then be offered incentives as well. Great news for the area? What happens when the grants and subsidies run out? They will then jump onto the next area that is offering incentives to businesses to their area and off they will go. Afterall thats what they did when they came here wasnt it?

We will then be left with a high speed link that will have to re-invent itself to pay its way.

Do we think anyone will be re-locating to Sheffield permanently? Can we see the straplines now? New York - Milan - Paris - Sheffield.

Not me.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

I find this all amusing. So the plan is to spend a fortune building a railway to attract businesses to the northern powerhouse, no doubt those businesses would then be offered incentives as well. Great news for the area? What happens when the grants and subsidies run out? They will then jump onto the next area that is offering incentives to businesses to their area and off they will go. Afterall thats what they did when they came here wasnt it?

We will then be left with a high speed link that will have to re-invent itself to pay its way.

Do we think anyone will be re-locating to Sheffield permanently? Can we see the straplines now? New York - Milan - Paris - Sheffield.

Not me.

 

So how else would you expand our rail infrastructure, which is at the moment almost running to capacity, without a comprehensive building program of more rail infrastructure?

[foxy lady 10]

So how else would you expand our rail infrastructure, which is at the moment almost running to capacity, without a comprehensive building program of more rail infrastructure?

 

I have noticed that cars and lorries can go along a motorway just a few car lenghts apart, yet trains pass along the rails several minutes apart. A gap of several miles..

To increase capacity without having to lay masses of extra track we could better utlise the track we have. Existing trains can be made to carry more passengers by increasing the number of carriages and increasing the seating capacity of each. That might require an exta few metres of platform at mainline stations. Also buy some more trains and run more of them on the existing track.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 15:59 ----------

 

The way I reads it, HS2 will come into Sheffield and terminate there without serving anywhere further north from Sheffield. If you want to go to Leeds or anywhere else north on HS2 you would have to travel south and "double back", probably at the East Midlands station.

 

Or it could mean what you said: there will be a random station on the HS2 line which will link into traditional train services into Sheffield. Plenty of space at Beighton for this I would have thought. You would have to travel to this station to go north to Leeds or anywhere else on the HS2 network.

 

I'm rather puzzled by that idea. If HS2 isn't having a service through from London to Derby, Sheffield, Leeds there would seem little point in any HS2 infrastructure in Sheffield at all. The trains could stop at Derby. Anyone wanting to go onwards to Sheffield might as well use the line through Chesterfield from there. Similarly, there isn't much point leaving Sheffield to go to a hub at Beighton to get to Leeds. You may as well take a train direct from Sheffield along existing lines.It might not be high speed but it would certainly be quicker.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

The way I reads it, HS2 will come into Sheffield and terminate there without serving anywhere further north from Sheffield. If you want to go to Leeds or anywhere else north on HS2 you would have to travel south and "double back", probably at the East Midlands station.

 

Or it could mean what you said: there will be a random station on the HS2 line which will link into traditional train services into Sheffield. Plenty of space at Beighton for this I would have thought. You would have to travel to this station to go north to Leeds or anywhere else on the HS2 network.

 

The plans are more advanced than you think.

The route is mapped and the stations designated.

Contractors are shortlisted for tendering.

The east midlands station is at Toton serving Derby and Nottingham so

Sheffield-Derby/Nottingham passengers would likely use the current services.

As would most Sheffield to Leeds traffic.

[foxy lady 10]

HS2 will pass at least a hundred communities between London and Leeds/Manchester

Please name 51 communities that are cut in half?

 

If you build a 250 mile long rail line through land that didn't previously have a rail line, you cut one side of the line off from the other. If you run trains at 200 miles per hour along those lines the only way folk can get from one side to the other will be where they choose to build a very expensive bridge. Just look what happened when the bridge collapsed in Tadcaster. One half of the community was cut off from the other because most folk couldn't be bothered to make the long treck to the next bridge.

You don't need to name communities cut off from others. One will be called West. The other will be called East.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

I have noticed that cars and lorries can go along a motorway just a few car lenghts apart, yet trains pass along the rails several minutes apart. A gap of several miles.. .

 

Lorries at 60mph and cars at 70 do not travel in the same lane.

Stopping trains at 70, limited stop trains at 110 and expresses at 140 have to be separated so you would need 6 parallel tracks which would be impossible on the current routes.

 

Train stopping distances are much longer because of their weight and thin rails. Signalling gaps are big because of stations, different track speeds, crossovers and junctions. There have been no deaths on trains for nine years.

MML times to Bedford are being speeded up now by improving track speed and signalling to reduce train gaps.

 

Experience from the complicated WCML showed that the billions of pounds spent on track and train improvement to meet the ever increasing demand had much less effect than expected. HS2 does not replace track in exactly the same way as Motorways didn't replace roads- except for the biggest road mess that is the A1/A1(M)

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 17:47 ----------

 

If you build a 250 mile long rail line through land that didn't previously have a rail line, you cut one side of the line off from the other. If you run trains at 200 miles per hour along those lines the only way folk can get from one side to the other will be where they choose to build a very expensive bridge. Just look what happened when the bridge collapsed in Tadcaster. One half of the community was cut off from the other because most folk couldn't be bothered to make the long treck to the next bridge.

You don't need to name communities cut off from others. One will be called West. The other will be called East.

 

East field and West field -name another 50 - you've had since February.

A much farer comparison than a river in flood would be the much wider motorways, trunk roads and bypasses.

There are far more opportunities to cross railways than major roads just because the track formation is narrower and more level giving making the construction much cheaper.

[foxy lady 10]

Lorries at 60mph and cars at 70 do not travel in the same lane.

Stopping trains at 70, limited stop trains at 110 and expresses at 140 have to be separated so you would need 6 parallel tracks which would be impossible on the current routes.

 

 

All traffic regardless of speed is supposed to travel in the inside lane of a motorway except when overtaking.

The way railways operate is to have sidings into which slow trains move to allow fast ones to get past. It is a system that has worked on the railways from before radio was invented. With computer control it can be made more efficient. There is no need for a different line for fast, slow, medium speed trains.

There was a time when 4 lines went south from Sheffield station right through to Totley. Now it seems that they manage well enough with 2 (one heading north & one heading south) despite the increase in volume using the lines.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 18:08 ----------

 

 

East field and West field -name another 50 - you've had since February.

A much farer comparison than a river in flood would be the much wider motorways, trunk roads and bypasses.

There are far more opportunities to cross railways than major roads just because the track formation is narrower and more level giving making the construction much cheaper.

 

What are you talking about. The line will pass through Renishaw. If you live at Spinkhill you are cut off from Eckington. If you farm where the line runs you are cut off from half your land. If you cycle along the cycle tracks that follow the disused railways your tack will be cut in half. If you are restoring the Chesterfield Canal you will find a high speed rail line in your path. If you want to walk from Halfway to Rother Valley Country Park there will be a rail line in your way. The same could be said for every piece of line on the whole route.

[WalkleyIan 10]

Unless you live next door to Midland station, don't you already have to travel to it and have to suffer all the hassle that describe? So if the transport links are greatly improved to the HS2 station, whats the tangible difference between catching your train from Midland or Meadowhall?

 

From Walkley...

 

15 minute bike ride to Midland, key fob to open the bike hub my lock already waiting in there, on the platform in 2 minutes .

 

Call it 20 minutes, door of the house to waiting on the platform.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

All traffic regardless of speed is supposed to travel in the inside lane of a motorway except when overtaking.

The way railways operate is to have sidings into which slow trains move to allow fast ones to get past. It is a system that has worked on the railways from before radio was invented. With computer control it can be made more efficient. There is no need for a different line for fast, slow, medium speed trains.

There was a time when 4 lines went south from Sheffield station right through to Totley. Now it seems that they manage well enough with 2 (one heading north & one heading south) despite the increase in volume using the lines.

 

---------- Post added 10-05-2016 at 18:08 ----------

 

 

What are you talking about. The line will pass through Renishaw. If you live at Spinkhill you are cut off from Eckington. If you farm where the line runs you are cut off from half your land. If you cycle along the cycle tracks that follow the disused railways your tack will be cut in half. If you are restoring the Chesterfield Canal you will find a high speed rail line in your path. If you want to walk from Halfway to Rother Valley Country Park there will be a rail line in your way. The same could be said for every piece of line on the whole route.

 

Removal of three stations along the route at Dore(MML), Millhouses and Heeley enabled the reduction in track numbers.

There are two long sidings between Sheffield and Dore where the Derbyshire limestone/cement trains stop and wait.

The line speed between Sheffield and Dore is the speed of the slowest trains that use the route effectively slowing everything.

 

The line passes west of Renishaw- it does not go through Renishaw.

The Chesterfield Canal was moved for the original railway in the 19th century, I sure that they can do it again.

There are no road closures between Spinkhill and Eckington.

 

Your concerns are very specific to a certain area.

Concerns about noise, access, mess, nuisance etc. are absolutely relevant and must be mitigated by people pressuring HS2, central and local government.

The construction companies must be obliged to use local knowledge and input to reduce the impact as much as possible.

The viaduct at Renishaw will increase noise pollution and local people must know what to expect and how HS2 is going about reducing it. Is it the best solution? Are there better ones? Why are they not being used?

The canal, footpaths and environment in the are need improving. What will HS2 do?

During construction what will HS2 do to make life bearable?

All these points and more need addressing before and during the planning and construction phases. Local people do need to mobilise to get the best deal for themselves their community and their living environment.

 

Cost is the only argument against HS2 which has any legs.

[foxy lady 10]

Removal of three stations along the route at Dore(MML), Millhouses and Heeley enabled the reduction in track numbers.

There are two long sidings between Sheffield and Dore where the Derbyshire limestone/cement trains stop and wait.

The line speed between Sheffield and Dore is the speed of the slowest trains that use the route effectively slowing everything.

 

The line passes west of Renishaw- it does not go through Renishaw.

The Chesterfield Canal was moved for the original railway in the 19th century, I sure that they can do it again.

There are no road closures between Spinkhill and Eckington.

 

Your concerns are very specific to a certain area.

Concerns about noise, access, mess, nuisance etc. are absolutely relevant and must be mitigated by people pressuring HS2, central and local government.

The construction companies must be obliged to use local knowledge and input to reduce the impact as much as possible.

The viaduct at Renishaw will increase noise pollution and local people must know what to expect and how HS2 is going about reducing it. Is it the best solution? Are there better ones? Why are they not being used?

The canal, footpaths and environment in the are need improving. What will HS2 do?

During construction what will HS2 do to make life bearable?

All these points and more need addressing before and during the planning and construction phases. Local people do need to mobilise to get the best deal for themselves their community and their living environment.

 

Cost is the only argument against HS2 which has any legs.

 

You do come across like a PR man for HS2. A bit like the rubbish the Cameron spouts about remaining in the EU.

There are more than roads that are disrupted. Communities are cut in half by rail lines. Public footpaths disappear. Pubs that were accessible to a community end up on the wrong sidse of the line. Businesses are cut off from their customers. Investors in the Chesterfield Canal pull out. Places that attracted tourists become noisy hell holes.

The only places that benefit are those adjacent to stations. Being close to the line any where else is a blight.

HS2 & HS3 will destroy Sheffield's economy. It will isolate Sheffield from the Northern Powerhouse. There will be no improvement in rail or road to Leeds, Manchester, Bradford, Liverpool. But those places will improve access to one another. We will pay towards the construction of a means to cripple our own infrastructure and will destroy the lives of thousands doing it.

[alchemist 35]

Interestingly this may all be a moot point. The times has reported the Sheffield station may be dropped entirely to save money:

 

http://www.51m.co.uk/a-desperate-search-for-cost-savings-will-mean-that-hs2-becomes-vision-lite/

 

There would be a "spur" line from the HS2 line to the centre. I assume that means HS2 just won't stop at Sheffield, but there will be a station in the middle of nowhere with a link to a new line into Sheffield?

 

Can I be the first to congratulate all of you that were campaigning to spend more money to bring the station into the centre of Sheffield? You have now managed to get rid of the "Sheffield" stop all together!!

 

[Annie Bynnol 612]

You do come across like a PR man for HS2. A bit like the rubbish the Cameron spouts about remaining in the EU.

There are more than roads that are disrupted. Communities are cut in half by rail lines. Public footpaths disappear. Pubs that were accessible to a community end up on the wrong sidse of the line. Businesses are cut off from their customers. Investors in the Chesterfield Canal pull out. Places that attracted tourists become noisy hell holes.

The only places that benefit are those adjacent to stations. Being close to the line any where else is a blight.

HS2 & HS3 will destroy Sheffield's economy. It will isolate Sheffield from the Northern Powerhouse. There will be no improvement in rail or road to Leeds, Manchester, Bradford, Liverpool. But those places will improve access to one another. We will pay towards the construction of a means to cripple our own infrastructure and will destroy the lives of thousands doing it.

 

 

Your two previous attempts at giving examples of "Communities are cut in half by rail lines." were at best map reading errors. Any more?

 

Following the process of the Edinburgh-Tweedbank and Oxford-Bicester rebuilding will offer some insight in how local issues are managed during planning and construction. Major constructions projects all over the country now have to take into account pubs, paths, canals, access and even newts and bats.

 

How will HS2 " ...cripple our own infrastructure..."?

 

How will HS2 " ... destroy the lives of thousands ..."?

 

HS3 does not exist as even a route and if it becomes a reality will not be a high speed line like HS1, HS2 or TGV.

 

---------- Post added 11-05-2016 at 08:55 ----------

 

Interestingly this may all be a moot point. The times has reported the Sheffield station may be dropped entirely to save money:

 

http://www.51m.co.uk/a-desperate-search-for-cost-savings-will-mean-that-hs2-becomes-vision-lite/

 

There would be a "spur" line from the HS2 line to the centre. I assume that means HS2 just won't stop at Sheffield, but there will be a station in the middle of nowhere with a link to a new line into Sheffield?

 

You have misquoted an anti HS2 campaign group selectively quoting The Times reporting on a cost saving exercise by the civil service which will report in the summer.