Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[pss60 10]

You seem to have confused the words knowledgeable and misinformed gibberish. I was going to take it apart line by line but my rude reply would have been 100 times more voluminous and i didn't want to be late for work.

 

In short, anyone who writes "The idiot Brunel" and expects to be taken seriously when discussing rail transport is on a par with someone who writes "The idiot Baird" when discussing home entertainment.

Brunel faced nimbys when building the GWR in his day, just as HS2 faces its opponents today. Were he still alive, he'd recognise the Stop HS2 brigade. Where Paddington is now was the only place where it could be built. Anywhere else faced stiff opposition. Given its original 7 feet gauge with structures built to suit, the Great Western ought to have been one of the easiest lines to electrify.

Edited July 26, 2017 by pss60

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

Brunel faced nimbys when building the GWR in his day, just as HS2 faces its opponents today. Were he still alive, he'd recognise the Stop HS2 brigade.

And before Brunel, the same hassle plagued the construction of canals.

[pss60 10]

And before Brunel, the same hassle plagued the construction of canals.

Exactly. Perhaps even the Romans drew complaints when building their roads as well, so nimbyism isn't new after all.

[Fudbeer 12]

New Midland Mainline trains will be slower, government says

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40851652?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb%26New+Midland+Mainline+trains+will+be+slower%2C+government+says%26&ns_fee=0#post_5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb

[geared 317]

Well wouldn't you know, Government caught bending the truth again.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

New Midland Mainline trains will be slower, government says

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40851652?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb%26New+Midland+Mainline+trains+will+be+slower%2C+government+says%26&ns_fee=0#post_5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb

 

Only half the story. The actual journey times from Sheffield and Derby will be slower very soon. The costs to the operator will also increase and fares will be allowed to increase faster by the government.

Now:

The line from Bedford south will need to accommodate the new express commuter trains which will interfere with the trains from Sheffield again increasing journey times.

Extension of life for the existing and ex GWR forty year old HSTs will slow down all journeys south of East Midlands.

Parkway. Meridan stock need major engineering and cosmetic refurbishment.

In five years time:

 

Not only will are the Bi-mode trains slower-which have not been designed, tested or ordered yet. (Totally different spec. to the GWR version).

The line speed from Kettering/Bedford will be reduced as Bi-modes cannot run at 125 mph under these wires. Likely to be 100 mph.

 

Please:

Read: East Midlands Franchise

Attend: 27 September 2017, 11am to 1pm at the Sheffield Town Hall

Respond: Franchise response.

[1978 14]

New Midland Mainline trains will be slower, government says

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-england-nottinghamshire-40851652?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb%26New+Midland+Mainline+trains+will+be+slower%2C+government+says%26&ns_fee=0#post_5989653de4b0c2b9f12663bb

 

That's not necessarily true, but......

 

The Spanish have been operating bi-modal trains capable of 160 mph on several of their lines, and they're able to operate on different gauge tracks too. See details of their Class 730; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_730

 

It is true that a bi-modal train will cost a lot more to build than a more simple electric unit. It is much heavier having to carry diesel power units and fuel tanks for the onboard electricity generation equipment. That will impede speed when on the tighter bends on the Midland mainline, and that's the challenge.

 

Using the Spanish experience, that was fatally proved 4 years ago when a driver tried to keep running too fast for too long after leaving the equivalent of an HS2 track to run on old lines that had not been upgraded. The higher centre of gravity and weight of the diesel power units meant they couldn't corner as fast as the lighter passenger carriages, so they came off the tracks dragging the rest of the train with them.

 

The design of our bi-modal trains could possibly allow them to run at high speeds on the existing Great Western, East and West coast mainline sections where they're straighter, so would benefit runs to non-electrified places like Aberdeen, Exeter and Hull. How far they could utilise acceleration and speed on the Midland mainline is down to the design of the trains, and any improvements that can be made to the tracks.

 

If they are to run as electric units for only a short part of their normal journeys it might be better to stay with diesel throughout! However, the news that bi-modal are to be ordered does encourage the thought that more electrification may yet come.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

That's not necessarily true, but......

 

The Spanish have been operating bi-modal trains capable of 160 mph on several of their lines, and they're able to operate on different gauge tracks too. See details of their Class 730; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_730

 

It is true that a bi-modal train will cost a lot more to build than a more simple electric unit. It is much heavier having to carry diesel power units and fuel tanks for the onboard electricity generation equipment. That will impede speed when on the tighter bends on the Midland mainline, and that's the challenge.

 

Using the Spanish experience, that was fatally proved 4 years ago when a driver tried to keep running too fast for too long after leaving the equivalent of an HS2 track to run on old lines that had not been upgraded. The higher centre of gravity and weight of the diesel power units meant they couldn't corner as fast as the lighter passenger carriages, so they came off the tracks dragging the rest of the train with them.

 

The design of our bi-modal trains could possibly allow them to run at high speeds on the existing Great Western, East and West coast mainline sections where they're straighter, so would benefit runs to non-electrified places like Aberdeen, Exeter and Hull. How far they could utilise acceleration and speed on the Midland mainline is down to the design of the trains, and any improvements that can be made to the tracks.

 

If they are to run as electric units for only a short part of their normal journeys it might be better to stay with diesel throughout! However, the news that bi-modal are to be ordered does encourage the thought that more electrification may yet come.

 

Bi-modal trains can be as fast as you want/afford but are always limited on the MML.

There are no designs for a MML route compatible bi-mode.

Problems include:

1. Heavier than current Meridians.

2. Poorer acceleration than Meridians on most of the route- exasperated by the use of the fast lines by new commuter services south of Kettering/Bedford.

3. Maximum speed between Bedford and London is 100 mph on electric trains. using electric power because of Overhead Line (OHL) limitation and cannot be easily upgraded.

4. Cost significantly more to run and maintain.

5. Cause timetabling problems because of (1-4).

 

They will not be available as a fleet for 5+ years and are not included in this or the next franchise.

Any operator would demand a major fare rise to compensate for extra costs.

 

For what its worth Government policy is not to order more mainline diesels but will be plenty of 40 year old HSTs available from the Great Western route.

Edited August 8, 2017 by Annie Bynnol

[1978 14]

For what its worth Government policy is not to order more mainline diesels but will be plenty of 40 year old HSTs available from the Great Western route.

 

And ScotRail are about to adapt and upgrade some into shorter units for use to Aberdeen and Inverness, complying with hygiene and access requirements. See; https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/03/23/scotrails-new-hsts/

 

So, no new diesels, but surely better to use revamped old diesels as long as they're still serviceable? That said, some of the GWR units are showing external corrosion around doors and windows, so what the concealed parts are like must be a concern. Most of their major mechanical parts have probably been replaced several times over by now.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

And ScotRail are about to adapt and upgrade some into shorter units for use to Aberdeen and Inverness, complying with hygiene and access requirements. See; https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/03/23/scotrails-new-hsts/

 

So, no new diesels, but surely better to use revamped old diesels as long as they're still serviceable? That said, some of the GWR units are showing external corrosion around doors and windows, so what the concealed parts are like must be a concern. Most of their major mechanical parts have probably been replaced several times over by now.

 

Personally I find the HST coaches much the most comfortable on the routes out of Sheffield and I would welcome them on CrossCountry.

No doubt ScotRail have already selected the locos with the best potential and all the converted carriages.

Increased usage on MML would lead increase journey times, particularly between Derby and Sheffield.

Sheffield trains to London will arrive at what will be the most polluted London station( **** covered tracks and diesel fumes).

They will be 40+ years old and take longer to get there than from Leeds.

[1978 14]

Bi-modal trains can be as fast as you want/afford but are always limited on the MML.

 

To clarify my previous post, although the Spanish bi-modal trains are capable of 160mph in electric mode, they're limited to 110 when operating as diesels.

[pss60 10]

And ScotRail are about to adapt and upgrade some into shorter units for use to Aberdeen and Inverness, complying with hygiene and access requirements. See; https://www.railengineer.uk/2017/03/23/scotrails-new-hsts/

 

So, no new diesels, but surely better to use revamped old diesels as long as they're still serviceable? That said, some of the GWR units are showing external corrosion around doors and windows, so what the concealed parts are like must be a concern. Most of their major mechanical parts have probably been replaced several times over by now.

 

Like it or not, you are making excuses for Sheffield and the East Midlands getting shafted. Are you, by any chance, that blockhead Grayling's spokesperson? You sound like it.