Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[dave_the_m 61]

I've never understood the hostility in principle to HS2. There hasn't been a major intercity route built in the UK for 100 years or more, and  it seems to me that we're well overdue for another one. Of course I see that there should be lots of debate about the detail - routes and stuff - but that's different.

 

On the other hand I'm bemused by the cost and cost overruns - we built HS1 not that long ago, so should have a reasonable handle on how much these things cost in reality. There seems to be something deeply wrong with how these things are budgeted.

[tinfoilhat 11]

16 hours ago, tonk said:

The thing I was told about HS2 is the biggest error is in the name...It was called High Speed because it sounds flash but actually the rationale has little to do with speed its more to do with capacity....

The current infrastructure doesnt allow a significant increase in capacity for either freight or passengers. If (for environmental reasons) we want more lorries off the road then we are going to have to build more rail capacity and it makes sense to do the new one at high speed for passengers and use the freed up capacity for more freight...

 

I was actually aginst HS2 on the basis of env damage but when put in this light it seems that it might well have loinger term env benefits , the UKs dependency on road freight is ridiculous and highly inefficient.

If you look at alot of freight on the roads, I'm not sure how much can be moved onto the railways.

[BigAl1 143]

21 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

If you look at alot of freight on the roads, I'm not sure how much can be moved onto the railways.

An interesting point - in theory the answer is quite a lot but that does of course assume that there is added investment at either end off the bit where it runs up or down the newly freed up bits WCML (north to Scotland, from the ports at Southampton and Felixstow and the like)

 

The problem of mixing the fasts and slow will remain on the WCML but there should of course be lots of extra seats but I wonder just how many more seats will be available on the "local services"

 

Anyway this is a sheffield forum and we should be worrying if indeed we will have a HS2 service  - no certainty that the eastern leg will be built

Edited July 11, 2020 by Bigal1

[tinfoilhat 11]

3 hours ago, Bigal1 said:

An interesting point - in theory the answer is quite a lot but that does of course assume that there is added investment at either end off the bit where it runs up or down the newly freed up bits WCML (north to Scotland, from the ports at Southampton and Felixstow and the like)

 

The problem of mixing the fasts and slow will remain on the WCML but there should of course be lots of extra seats but I wonder just how many more seats will be available on the "local services"

 

Anyway this is a sheffield forum and we should be worrying if indeed we will have a HS2 service  - no certainty that the eastern leg will be built

I think we all know Sheffield won’t get any hs2 service.

 

Final point on freight. If you ever find yourself at Watford gap services around 8pm mon - thurs, count the amount of lorries that go by, then count the ones that aren’t Royal Mail, FedEx, dpd etc etc. They make up huge amount of freight on the roads and I don’t see how you can get rid of it.

[Guest busdriver1]

17 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

I think we all know Sheffield won’t get any hs2 service.

 

Final point on freight. If you ever find yourself at Watford gap services around 8pm mon - thurs, count the amount of lorries that go by, then count the ones that aren’t Royal Mail, FedEx, dpd etc etc. They make up huge amount of freight on the roads and I don’t see how you can get rid of it.

Until fairly recently Royal Mail used Rail for its long distance stuff. 

Genuine question - why did they change?

[BigAl1 143]

1 hour ago, busdriver1 said:

Until fairly recently Royal Mail used Rail for its long distance stuff. 

Genuine question - why did they change?

As far as I am aware the Royal Mail trains continue to run

 

There is even talk of experimentation to attract the long distance parcels business back to the rails

[Zarniwoop 10]

I think trains do bulk transport (stone, cement etc.) best.

 

The problem with general freight is that the large distribution wharehouses don't  by and large, have rail links so goods have to transferred to a lorry for the last part of their journey. So increasing cost and time taken.

The whole distribution system is designed for road transport.

[iansheff 88]

On 10/07/2020 at 14:41, dave_the_m said:

I've never understood the hostility in principle to HS2. There hasn't been a major intercity route built in the UK for 100 years or more, and  it seems to me that we're well overdue for another one. Of course I see that there should be lots of debate about the detail - routes and stuff - but that's different.

 

On the other hand I'm bemused by the cost and cost overruns - we built HS1 not that long ago, so should have a reasonable handle on how much these things cost in reality. There seems to be something deeply wrong with how these things are budgeted.

I remember seeing a woman passenger being interviewed about the HS1 she was being asked did she use it, she said not unless I have to ,she said she couldn't afford to use it all the time. So it all depends how much more the fares will cost than on the usual train. I suppose business people will be ok as they will probably be covered by claiming it against expenses.

[BigAl1 143]

27 minutes ago, iansheff said:

I remember seeing a woman passenger being interviewed about the HS1 she was being asked did she use it, she said not unless I have to ,she said she couldn't afford to use it all the time. So it all depends how much more the fares will cost than on the usual train. I suppose business people will be ok as they will probably be covered by claiming it against expenses.

The theory is that the fares on HS2 will be the same as existing fares (at the time) and that there will not be a premium but don't trust anything the government tell you

35 minutes ago, Zarniwoop said:

I think trains do bulk transport (stone, cement etc.) best.

 

The problem with general freight is that the large distribution wharehouses don't  by and large, have rail links so goods have to transferred to a lorry for the last part of their journey. So increasing cost and time taken.

The whole distribution system is designed for road transport.

we are getting a bit off topic so by all means let start a new discussion before the mods jump in and slap our wrists if you wish to continue

[geared 306]

47 minutes ago, Zarniwoop said:

I think trains do bulk transport (stone, cement etc.) best.

 

The problem with general freight is that the large distribution wharehouses don't  by and large, have rail links so goods have to transferred to a lorry for the last part of their journey. So increasing cost and time taken.

The whole distribution system is designed for road transport.

 

Also alot of our distribution network is based on the 'just in time' approach.

 

So adding in an extra step faffing around with trains screws the whole thing up.

[jamie risner 10]

On 12/07/2020 at 11:27, iansheff said:

I remember seeing a woman passenger being interviewed about the HS1 she was being asked did she use it, she said not unless I have to ,she said she couldn't afford to use it all the time. So it all depends how much more the fares will cost than on the usual train. I suppose business people will be ok as they will probably be covered by claiming it against expenses.

It should bring the prices down on normal train lines though - like in Europe. In Italy/France you can pay more and get the high speed train or pay a lot less and get the intercity service... Hopefully that's how it work in the UK!

[Weredoomed 10]

1 hour ago, jamie risner said:

It should bring the prices down on normal train lines though - like in Europe. In Italy/France you can pay more and get the high speed train or pay a lot less and get the intercity service... Hopefully that's how it work in the UK!

Meanwhile, in the real world of rip-off Britain...