Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

[taxman 12]

Get 'em to knock up those 50 extra hospitals Boris promised while they are at it. 😂

[Annie Bynnol 611]

On April 14th the Government and HS2 Limited have announced that full scale construction of HS2  will start as soon as Public Health England rules restrictions allow.

This is the route to Birmingham. 

 

This is regarded as a 'tipping point' as the hundreds of small and medium sized businesses can now plan to set up their workforce, business and financial plans with certainty.

Edited April 15, 2020 by Annie Bynnol

[Guest busdriver1]

The latest proposal for HS2 is to scrap the Eastern leg from the midlands to Leeds and instead Extend the Western leg over the pennines to Leeds and on to Newcastle.

 

Link

Looks like common sense has come to the fore although i reckon Sheffield Council will now want a tunnel through the pennines so they will still be "connected" 😁

[alchresearch 213]

More details and map here.  That first link is behind a paywall.

 

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/alternative-hs2-piccadilly-hub-could-save-billions/#article-images-2

 

[ECCOnoob 1,020]

I think I might wait a while before I start wetting my knickers with excitement.

 

This talk about "building it over the Pennines" as if it's as easy as chucking a few rails down......  Good grief they couldn't even build so much as a dual carriageway between two major cities without a chain of massive failures, protests groups, controversy and massive expenditure.  

 

Unless they are going to somehow conveniently squeeze it along the middle of the M62 I'll be very surprised if this plan comes off in full.   Even more so now that the world is changed and that demand for business travel is likely going to be in decline.

 

Much as I hate to admit it, because I was one of the few people that wanted this thing, I suspect it's going to be an uphill battle for any of it now.  

[tinfoilhat 11]

Well I wasn't far off.

 

On 20/01/2020 at 14:38, tinfoilhat said:

It's about capacity, not speed.

 

But, frankly that's all a bit irrelevant as I reckon the who thing will go no further than birmingham. Its certainly not going to Leeds.

That green line proposal will keep folk in Leeds happy a little longer then quietly dropped. It will do Manchester, nothing more.

[Annie Bynnol 611]

There have been many, many proposals and variations.

At the moment the building of the HS2 line to Birmingham has started and the detail contractual work from near Birmingham to the WCML and and  Manchester is well in advance. 

 

The eastern arm is way behind in planning and the current plan is not at a stage where changes cannot be made.

 

This re-hash is all about Manchester and is from Manchester and sold as a benefit to Manchester.

It is a crayon exercise by architects hoping to get money and backing from Burnham to throw at Boris.

[1978 14]

Much as I'd love HS2 to come to Sheffield, the logic of taking it to Manchester, then through Bradford and Leeds for York and the North East makes a lot of sense, not least because they already want a fast line across/through the Pennines on that route anyway.

 

Sheffield lost out in the first wave of railway building and ended with a  spur from Rotherham to the Wicker in 1840, having to wait until 1870 for the current tracks from Chesterfield to Midland. We're in dangerof losing out again.

 

However, we may be better off pushing a lot harder for MML electrification as it should be possible to get that completed a lot more quickly. Done in conjuction with electification for Cross-Country routes from York through Sheffield and Derby to Birmingham gives other options, possibly electrified to Bristol.

 

Unfortunately getting out of Sheffield to the north and east is a major challenge due to already congested tracks. Given the position of roads, rivers, the canal, buildings, viaducts  and cuttings it won't be easy or cheap to resolve that. Only someone from the North West  would suggest the best way from Sheffield  to York is via both Doncaster and Leeds, rather than developing the middle and quicker way that  exists via Moorthorpe, avoiding them both and still used as a diversion.  However we still need good electrified connections to both Doncaster and Leeds.   

[tonk 10]

On 15/02/2020 at 10:01, Baron99 said:

 

 

Mine & many others' objections to HS2, HS2a & HS2b have been on the grounds of cost against the perceived reduction in travel times, ...........

 

 

The thing I was told about HS2 is the biggest error is in the name...It was called High Speed because it sounds flash but actually the rationale has little to do with speed its more to do with capacity....

The current infrastructure doesnt allow a significant increase in capacity for either freight or passengers. If (for environmental reasons) we want more lorries off the road then we are going to have to build more rail capacity and it makes sense to do the new one at high speed for passengers and use the freed up capacity for more freight...

 

I was actually aginst HS2 on the basis of env damage but when put in this light it seems that it might well have loinger term env benefits , the UKs dependency on road freight is ridiculous and highly inefficient.

Edited July 9, 2020 by tonk

[Annie Bynnol 611]

Moving the bulk of high speed traffic between London and Birmingham/Crewe/Manchester will release an even bigger amount of capacity on the conventional lines.

This could be used for more local passenger services and freight.

Fast and slow traffic don't mix well in any system removing  the fast traffic increases the speed and capacity of both as each system operates more efficiently.

The previous attempt to increase the speed and capacity of the West Coast Main Line was a failure in every measurable  way and resulted in the acceptance that Victorian railways cannot be upgraded and new lines had to be built- a bit like the building a new motorway (M1) compared to the mess that is the A1(M) which has taken 50 years and is still sub standard and incomplete.

[jamie risner 10]

On 30/06/2020 at 12:26, alchresearch said:

More details and map here.  That first link is behind a paywall.

 

https://www.placenorthwest.co.uk/news/alternative-hs2-piccadilly-hub-could-save-billions/#article-images-2

 

This would be a total disaster for Sheffield! I thought for a second it was a proposal from the project team - but it's not, it's just a suggestion by an unrelated architecture firm throwing ideas in the air.... Phew!

 

 

[jezzyjj 10]

12 hours ago, Annie Bynnol said:

The previous attempt to increase the speed and capacity of the West Coast Main Line was a failure in every measurable  way and resulted in the acceptance that Victorian railways cannot be upgraded and new lines had to be built- a bit like the building a new motorway (M1) compared to the mess that is the A1(M) which has taken 50 years and is still sub standard and incomplete.

Upgrading/improving roads [other than a better surface] is a complete waste of time. 
Roads always fill to capacity, so a very expensive and pointless task as you end up with same congestion. 

https://www.wired.com/2014/06/wuwt-traffic-induced-demand/