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Campaign grows to switch the building of HS2 station to Sheffield city

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All the people that think that HS2 will be a good thing are being mislead by all the pro politicians. Saving a few minutes on travel time isn't going to be much of a benefit.

All the billions being wasted, would be better spent making our towns and cities more environmentally greener..

Use the money to provide all electric buses and public transport.

Grants to encourage everyone to switch to electric cars.

Industrial clean air filters in all our school play areas.

Get everyone out planting trees..

There are so many other ways to better spend HS2 money...

 

But yet again governments love squandering public funds on needless projects...

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1 hour ago, alandrea0 said:

All the people that think that HS2 will be a good thing are being mislead by all the pro politicians. Saving a few minutes on travel time isn't going to be much of a benefit.

All the billions being wasted, would be better spent making our towns and cities more environmentally greener..

Use the money to provide all electric buses and public transport.

Grants to encourage everyone to switch to electric cars.

Industrial clean air filters in all our school play areas.

Get everyone out planting trees..

There are so many other ways to better spend HS2 money...

 

But yet again governments love squandering public funds on needless projects...

It's not just about speed. It's about capacity. 

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1 hour ago, alandrea0 said:

All the people that think that HS2 will be a good thing are being mislead by all the pro politicians. Saving a few minutes on travel time isn't going to be much of a benefit.

All the billions being wasted, would be better spent making our towns and cities more environmentally greener..

Use the money to provide all electric buses and public transport.

Grants to encourage everyone to switch to electric cars.

Industrial clean air filters in all our school play areas.

Get everyone out planting trees..

There are so many other ways to better spend HS2 money...

 

But yet again governments love squandering public funds on needless projects...

Misled? - In your opinion perhaps...but I would argue you are being misled by the Road Lobby and Society Of Motor Manufacturers and Traders...into believing electric vehicles are the answer to all our problems.

 

I agree with the promotion of electric buses, much better public transport and above all segregated cycle routes...but don't think private electric vehicles are the answer to our congestion and pollution problems.

How would you build the additional baseline capacity needed in the power generation to ensure we can all charge our cars over night?

Have you considered the amount of raw materials that are needed for the construction of the car (specifically the batteries) and the amount of copper required for the high amperage charging infrastructure?

Have you considered the other external costs of electric vehicles (e.g accidents, brake dust pollution)?

How would electric vehicles reduce congestion?

 

I am afraid that in our modern society, using private vehicles (even electric ones) to commute into crowded cities is simply no longer viable...maybe it once was in the 60's but "Peak Car" has now arrived.

The future is mass transit systems, rail being the most readily available.

The increase in speed provided by HS2 is not really the benefit...the benefit is in releasing capacity on existing lines, shifting people from internal flights to trains etc.

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13 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

It's not just about speed. It's about capacity. 

Speed to the north of Birmingham to be cut?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/12/hs2-could-be-slower-north-birmingham-cut-costs-grant-shapps

 

Looks like lt'll be the best part of 20 years before it reaches this neck of the woods anyway.

 

"Amid the government’s fanfare about bringing new infrastructure to the north of England, HS2 is not forecast to be delivered to passengers in Manchester and Leeds until between 2037 and 2040."

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1 minute ago, Longcol said:

Speed to the north of Birmingham to be cut?

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2020/feb/12/hs2-could-be-slower-north-birmingham-cut-costs-grant-shapps

 

Looks like lt'll be the best part of 20 years before it reaches this neck of the woods anyway.

 

"Amid the government’s fanfare about bringing new infrastructure to the north of England, HS2 is not forecast to be delivered to passengers in Manchester and Leeds until between 2037 and 2040."

Well yes, no government can just magic up a railway out of thin air immediately. Of course it's gonna take a while... 

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56 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Well yes, no government can just magic up a railway out of thin air immediately. Of course it's gonna take a while... 

The French built the 186 mile long TGV line from Tours to Bordeaux in just over 5 years.

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16 hours ago, tinfoilhat said:

Really? What will the population be in 20 years time? I'd guess you can add another 7m people - and another, what 3m cars?

 

We didn't need an M1 in 1923 when Lord montegue came up with idea, and we didn't need one in 1949 either when legislation was passed. We need better public transport infrastructure. 

The ONS current guesstimate for 2040 is the UK will have just over 75 million people living here.  As for cars, a number of sources predict around 11 million vehicles, which as we know will now have to be electric. 

 

Now if you'd like to tell us all how many of the above will be using the HS2 network, given that the majority of the above will most likely settle in the South East of England & within the M25? 

 

There's no indication that all these extra people will want to travel on trains at that time, (between now & 2040 at the earliest predicted HS rolling stock date for HS2b), but if they are in the 90% of regular, daily commuters, it'll be journeys of 30-40 miles into cities where they work, taken more likely on the standard railway network which they currently suffer, (& pay high prices for) not HS2 & its  Northern offshoots. 

 

It also won't eleviate commuter problems in the South East or for Norfolk commuters trying to get to their work in London. 

 

If HS2 is so important to the future economy & prosperity of the UK, why hasn't the work started in the 3 termination points at the same time with the rail lines working towards each other as, has been the case in the past, including putting rail lines under the Channel? 

 

The work from London to Birmingham having already been started, would still be finished before the Northern spurs & we wouldn't be looking at a predicted construction start date for our region of 2035 with train on the tracks by 2040 

 

Population & increased vehicle numbers therefore appear irrelevant to the HS2 argument. 

Edited by Baron99

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1 hour ago, Longcol said:

The French built the 186 mile long TGV line from Tours to Bordeaux in just over 5 years.

Only a third of the cost of which was funded by the government. It does seem things happen quite a bit quicker and cheaper when private companies have more to lose..  

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16 minutes ago, Robin-H said:

Only a third of the cost of which was funded by the government. It does seem things happen quite a bit quicker and cheaper when private companies have more to lose..  

Found this from 2016.  Based on the HS2 figures at 2016, which have now doubled to £104 billion at the end of 2019, the French completed their project at a fifth of the cost. 

 

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2016/may/26/hs2-cost-line-france-tours-bordeaux-report

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39 minutes ago, Baron99 said:

The ONS current guesstimate for 2040 is the UK will have just over 75 million people living here.  As for cars, a number of sources predict around 11 million vehicles, which as we know will now have to be electric. 

 

Now if you'd like to tell us all how many of the above will be using the HS2 network, given that the majority of the above will most likely settle in the South East of England & within the M25? 

 

There's no indication that all these extra people will want to travel on trains at that time, (between now & 2040 at the earliest predicted HS rolling stock date for HS2b), but if they are in the 90% of regular, daily commuters, it'll be journeys of 30-40 miles into cities where they work, taken more likely on the standard railway network which they currently suffer, (& pay high prices for) not HS2 & its  Northern offshoots. 

 

It also won't eleviate commuter problems in the South East or for Norfolk commuters trying to get to their work in London. 

 

If HS2 is so important to the future economy & prosperity of the UK, why hasn't the work started in the 3 termination points at the same time with the rail lines working towards each other as, has been the case in the past, including putting rail lines under the Channel? 

 

The work from London to Birmingham having already been started, would still be finished before the Northern spurs & we wouldn't be looking at a predicted construction start date for our region of 2035 with train on the tracks by 2040 

 

Population & increased vehicle numbers therefore appear irrelevant to the HS2 argument. 

I haven't got a clue how many will be using HS2 - what a strange question to ask me, I'd ask those who planned it, you might get a better response.

 

However, given they are planning on running alot of trains on hs2, I'd guess quite a few. The number of rail journies has gone from 400million to 449m in the last 5 years. I've no idea why you think Now if you'd like to tell us all how many of the above will be using the HS2 network, given that the majority of the above will most likely settle in the South East of England & within the M25? what are you basing that on?

 

And in 2040 you can't buy a petrol or diesel car, there will be still lots on the road. And unless many more roads are going to be built they'll be congested with electric vehicles.

 

Population & increased vehicle numbers therefore appear irrelevant to the HS2 argument.  To who? 

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18 hours ago, ECCOnoob said:

Yippie for the civil servants.

 

Meanwhile back in the real world the rest of us don't all have the luxury options of sitting at home in our pants attending 'online meetings'.   

 

Some of us actually have to get out there and meet people face-to-face.  Some of us have to go and inspect, interview and undertake work on sites.  Some of us have to attend inquests and court hearings at many venues around the country  (including London).   

 

This revolution of the online technology does not eliminate the need for travel.  It does not replace the requirement for people required to physically be in the presence of or physically required to do actions on a site.  Travel will always exist and there will always be ever increasing numbers of people doing it.

 

People stupidly query 'what's the big deal about shaving 20-minutes off a journey  to London''.    But the entire project is so much more.

 

As someone who has to train travel regularly it  could make a massive difference.   With the right connections and a combination of both HS2 and existing rail I may end up with an ability to shave off was previously a 3-4 hour journey into half the time.  That in turn could make what would be another overnight stay in to a one day job.

 

Add on the obvious benefit that it will improving the capacity on the existing rail network -  it's about time we stop with the whining rhetoric and get behind such a project.

 

Given the wholly disproportionate amount of money spent on travel in the South East it's damn right something is finally coming our way.

 

I just hope the corbynmentalists and hug a tree brigade don't screw this up.

Oooooo!  Clearly not seen any of my previous posts then?  While I try & do my bit for the environment, I could hardly be considered to one of Corbyn's mates or his blinkered acolytes.

 

Anyhow, back on track.  You're dealing with someone who stated on past relevant SF threads, that there should be faster, more direct links between Sheffield, Leeds & Manchester with both road & rail tunnels through the Pennines.   

Now on to your post.  As you state;

"As someone who has to train travel regularly it  could make a massive difference.  With the right connections and a combination of both HS2 and existing rail I may end up with an ability to shave off was previously a 3-4 hour journey into half the time." 

 

I think we'd all like to  know what you pay for this privilege, (1st or 2nd class? ) & how long your journey is?  Presumably, we're talking from Sheffield & by the wording of your post, it's for business, so you don't get the benefit of the advertised off-peak prices etc, seen on tv, when you have to travel at 13:55pm, on the third Tuesday, next November? 

 

So what is your return fare from Sheffield or wherever?  

 

Another question?  If you could use an HS2 train tomorrow, given it is going to run on its own dedicated line what do you think you'd be asked to pay? 

 

And my last question?  Well, you've almost answered it yourself. " With the RIGHT CONNECTIONS and a combination of both HS2 and EXISTING  RAIL I MAY end up with an ability to shave off was previously a 3-4 hour journey into half the time. 

 

No guarantee of that then the rest of the rail infrastructure seems to be takia bit of a back seat to HS2.  

 

Additionally, unless you upsticks & move to Birmingham, you've you're looking at 2040 at the earliest before you'll be able to shave any minutes off that journey time. 

 

Now while I appreciate that a number of commuters do need to travel from Sheffield to London on a regular basis, I never seen any tv coverage of people struggling on the Master Cutler, so you & your fellow commuters must be in a minority when compared to those commuters who struggle with their 30 mile, morning & evening commutes. 

 

By all means use the money to sort out the routes for the majority first. 

 

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Yesterday, I started a new thread on HS2, specifically about the visibility, or lack of, a figurehead to lead Sheffield through the next critical stage of decision making about HS phase 2 and NPR. The mods have now decided to integrate it into this wider HS2 thread (#26 above).
The only voice I have heard so far is from Dan Jarvis, the current Mayor of SCR. His contempt for Sheffield is well known - indeed in the press release I read, he could not even bring himself to mention the city's name once. On the other hand, in fairness, it is the ONLY voice I have heard locally so far.
While we continue to bicker and argue about past decisions, other regions are vociferous in pushing their cases for the next stages.
Where is the voice of Sheffield itself? With this disastrous lack of leadership, there is a real danger that Sheffield, and by association, the rest of S. Yorks will be bypassed entirely, not only from HS2 but also NPR.

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