Turko-Russian powder-keg

[mafya 246]

Turkey is upset that it's Isis oil supply is facing disruption, more info regarding turkeys double dealing= http://www.infowars.com/turkey-threatened-putin-stop-bombing-isis-days-before-jet-shoot-down/

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 18:15 ----------

 

Has ISIS disappeared then? They are no longer interested in attacking the UK or our allies?

 

Maybe Dave and the west have a clear idea about what their strategy is and how they expect to pursue it.

 

If Britain gets involved then an Isis attack in the Uk will definitely happen, Russia is dealing with Isis even though the west is not happy about Putin leading the way..

[999tigger 10]

Turkey is upset that it's Isis oil supply is facing disruption, more info regarding turkeys double dealing= http://www.infowars.com/turkey-threatened-putin-stop-bombing-isis-days-before-jet-shoot-down/

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 18:15 ----------

 

 

If Britain gets involved then an Isis attack in the Uk will definitely happen, Russia is dealing with Isis even though the west is not happy about Putin leading the way..

 

Maybe, but whether Turkey had a right to shoot down the plane will depend on whether it was in its airpsace or not.

 

The security services are already preventing a number of attacks, so one will eventually get through anyway. Russia isnt really dealing with ISIS as the vast majority of the attacks are against the rebels opposed to Assad, who are not ISIS and whome the west supports.

The west isnt happy that he supports Assad, so not really about Putin leading the way as you put it, unless thats what you mean. The west will need to get its act together so it has a clear straegy on what it wants to do and how.

[betterman 10]

About a kilometre for a plane travelling at several hundred km an hour is a tiny distance.

 

 

 

Think its quite obvious that youd wnat to make it plain to your allys what happened and make sure they were going to back you up.

 

I like how hes managed to drag Nato in with the ISIS angle, but as the vast majority of Russian air strikes are not against ISISm then his rhetoric should be taken with a pinch of salt even if true.

 

Russia don't claim to be attacking ISIL, they claim to be attacking terrorists.

[tzijlstra 11]

So Turkey is trying to protect ethnic Turks who live in a bordering country from a perceived threat by the military of the country in question.

 

Turkey is obviously being a bully and Russia has the moral hight grou .. hang on, Why did Russia invade Crimea again?

 

Irrelevant, if you want to claim moral high ground you have to be right on all accounts. If Turkey is doing to Russia what Russia was doing the Ukraine than we are all going to lose.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 18:43 ----------

 

its just got very complicated in the middle east lol

 

It already was Mel!

[999tigger 10]

Russia don't claim to be attacking ISIL, they claim to be attacking terrorists.

 

You miss the point, which is if ISIS are so bad, Russia seems to be conveniently avoiding attacking them, which make his words a bit rich.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 19:08 ----------

 

Irrelevant, if you want to claim moral high ground you have to be right on all accounts. If Turkey is doing to Russia what Russia was doing the Ukraine than we are all going to lose.

 

or perhaps they shot down a plane that was in its airpsace.

 

Where does it say Turkey is doing the same as Russia did in the Ukraine? Theres a piece on the BBC about the Turkmen.

[I1L2T3 10]

Has ISIS disappeared then? They are no longer interested in attacking the UK or our allies?

 

Maybe Dave and the west have a clear idea about what their strategy is and how they expect to pursue it.

 

ISIS could have been defeated long ago. Losing count of the amount of times I've explained how the USA has been complicit in keeping funding streams to ISIS open.

 

Attacking ISIS guarantees more attacks on the UK, not less.

[exxon 10]

ISIS could have been defeated long ago. Losing count of the amount of times I've explained how the USA has been complicit in keeping funding streams to ISIS open.

 

 

But the more of our home grown extremists get lured in the more the Russians can bomb.

[SqueakyPete 10]

After reading the official letter to the U.N (genuine?),I find it hard to believe that someone would start a fight with Russia(who are actively bombing next door),for the sake of 17 seconds of airspace (1.3 miles apparently).

I wouldn't be too suprised if Turkey have just played right into Russia's hands here.

This gives Putin a perfect reason to blow the "moderates" to smithereens.I know they have been before this,but now they can play on Russian media how the moderates are officially terrorists towards Russia now.

Its all one big chess board .

[phantom309 10]

Obama as been addressing his nation and I found it more interesting in what he did not say than the very diplomatic speech which he came out with.

 

He did not accuse Russia of violating Turkey,s air space and there are reports of the air space on the Syrian side being claimed as Turkey,s by Turkey

[999tigger 10]

ISIS could have been defeated long ago. Losing count of the amount of times I've explained how the USA has been complicit in keeping funding streams to ISIS open.

 

Attacking ISIS guarantees more attacks on the UK, not less.

 

There are plenty of links on this thread explaining how the ISIS oil infrastructure works. It also shows how complicated the whole market is.

 

Oil is their biggest payer but its not the only way they raise money and they will still have finds to continue fighting for a long time. Clearly they wouldnt have been defeated a long time ago because they are a substantial military entity that can hold their own against any of the troops already on the ground. The west have no particular desire to go in necause it means $ and loss of life for them. It might mean more attacks in the short term, but if they go in properly, then they can rout them at least as an organised military force. However they cnat do anything till they have an understanding what will happen after. the USA is no less playing a game as the Russians are.

 

If ISIS keep attacking they will make it inevitable the west will go in, but probably under a UN mandate. Doing nothing will just be storing up trouble for the future.

 

---------- Post added 24-11-2015 at 19:40 ----------

 

Obama as been addressing his nation and I found it more interesting in what he did not say than the very diplomatic speech which he came out with.

 

He did not accuse Russia of violating Turkey,s air space and there are reports of the air space on the Syrian side being claimed as Turkey,s by Turkey

 

Thats because hes trying to calm the situation and leaving it for Turkey and Russia to try and sort out. Accusing Russia is not diplomatic, so he obviously wouldnt say that at this early stage. the sides will actually know which side of the border the plane was on and when it was shot down.

[GLASGOWOODS 10]

Given the current context and the topic of the thread, here is a recent and very sobering opinion piece by Max Fischer (Vox).

 

He's an independently-minded author with good sources whose insights I tend to respect.

 

Don't read this if you're the anxious type

 

tigger, thanks for these earlier links, they were interesting indeed.

 

Hey Loob...Fascinating read! Especially the 'false alarm' back on Sep 26th 1983, (which would have put a bit of a dampener on my sisters birthday:D).

 

Thanks for that.

Edited November 24, 2015 by GLASGOWOODS

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Hey Loob...Fascinating read! Especially the 'false alarm' back on Sep 26th 1983, (which would have put a bit of a dampener on my sisters birthday:D).

 

Thanks for that.

 

There's a really good documentary about Lt. Colonel Stanislav E. Petrov, who followed his hunch and ignored the protocols to confirm the American missile launch. It's aptly called - the Man Who Saved the World. You can get it here: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Man-Who-Saved-World-DVD/dp/B00S4YGDNC/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1448399559&sr=8-1&keywords=The+Man+Who+Saved+The+World