Turko-Russian powder-keg

[tzijlstra 11]

The US now say Turkey downed the jet in Syrian airspace. I assume that if true this will be a relief to NATO as they will not be forced to support a member states aggression outside of their boarders.

 

Some say Turkey only got involved because Russia bombed oil tankers destined for Turkey.

 

I'm suspicious of both parties in this, but I'm a little more supportive of Russia than Turkey.

 

This is incredibly significant, it means that Russia can (and will) carry out sanctions on Turkey without the risk of it turning into a NATO affair. Of course they still won't bomb Turkey, but they will make life difficult. Turkey really overplayed it's hand (based on the information that is slowly seeping out).

[L00b 441]

Turkey really overplayed it's hand (based on the information that is slowly seeping out).

That was my reading of it yesterday...before I thought about it some more, and belatedly factored in the leverage which millions of Syrian refugees in Turkish camps still gives Erdogan upon the EU regardless, in the context of the EU<>Russia relations that are still strongly influenced by Crimea, Ukraine and the Baltic EU states.

 

This is going to get trickier yet, whichever way the issue goes.

[SqueakyPete 10]

I doubt the GC applies 'technically', since there's no war between Syria (of which the Turkmen are natives) and Russia and the Turkmen are, in context, armed anti-government opponents/rebels/terrorists/<etc.>, to the same extent as e.g. IS combatants.

 

So, it's not a war crime as such. It's "just" murder.

FWIW I'm hoping Putin just uses his trademark sledgehammer to flatten them all, along with IS and anyone else in the area, with a few daisycutters, and takes the opportunity to down any Turkish F16s that happen to stray into Syrian airspace for a few seconds.

 

I mean, speaking of hypocrisy, let's wind back the clock a few years:

 

I saw that,and I'm pretty sure Erdoğan is fully aware how hypocritical his 2 conflicting statements are.

And my bold...I think thats what exactly what Putin will do,and I find it very hard to believe that Turkey had zero foresight when it came to downing that jet.(anyone that trigger happy shouldn't be in control over such powerful weapons).

[Tina53 10]

According to Turkey, Russia has been constantly violating their airspace and in spite of repeated warnings that action will be takin if they continue.

 

 

Yes I bet they got a lot of warnings in during the 17 second period this allegedly happened. And it would appear that there is one rule for Turkey and another for Russia given this article - http://www.infowars.com/turkey-in-2012-short-term-border-violation-can-never-be-a-pretext-for-an-attack/

[Agent Orange 11]

I see that Russia have now confirmed that their bombers will be escorted by fighters from now on.

[PeteMorris 10]

I see that Russia have now confirmed that their bombers will be escorted by fighters from now on.

 

I can't say I blame them...There'll be hell to pay if Turkey takes another 'pop' at them!

[L00b 441]

I see that Russia have now confirmed that their bombers will be escorted by fighters from now on.

As expected:

<...>That was an easy kill for Erdogan's boys. It would have been a different kettle of fish altogether if they'd come nose to nose with a Fulcrum or a SU30. Which will likely escort SU24s and SU25s from now on. That'll get real interesting then.

Downed Turkish jet fighter(s) in 3, 2, 1...

[BarryRiley 10]

Yes I bet they got a lot of warnings in during the 17 second period this allegedly happened. And it would appear that there is one rule for Turkey and another for Russia given this article - http://www.infowars.com/turkey-in-2012-short-term-border-violation-can-never-be-a-pretext-for-an-attack/

 

Yes Erdogan did previously state that short term border violations were not a reason for taking physical action. Turkey also have a long history of illegally flying in to Greek airspace.

 

However, now the shoe is on the other foot.

[SqueakyPete 10]

Yes I bet they got a lot of warnings in during the 17 second period this allegedly happened. And it would appear that there is one rule for Turkey and another for Russia given this article - http://www.infowars.com/turkey-in-2012-short-term-border-violation-can-never-be-a-pretext-for-an-attack/

 

Why are there so many people online getting confused like you?

They didn't warn them 10 times that they were in their airspace,they warned them they were about to enter their airspace

Spreading misinformation,and then linking to infowars of all sites

What was your previous username BTW?

[999tigger 10]

The US now say Turkey downed the jet in Syrian airspace. I assume that if true this will be a relief to NATO as they will not be forced to support a member states aggression outside of their boarders.

 

Some say Turkey only got involved because Russia bombed oil tankers destined for Turkey.

 

I'm suspicious of both parties in this, but I'm a little more supportive of Russia than Turkey.

 

Have you got a link? I didnt see the statement.

 

Its always been known the plane was hit by the missile outside syrian airspace, but the imporamt point is if at the time the missile was fired the Russian plane was inside Turkish airspace.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2015 at 14:47 ----------

 

Why are there so many people online getting confused like you?

They didn't warn them 10 times that they were in their airspace,they warned them they were about to enter their airspace

Spreading misinformation,and then linking to infowars of all sites

What was your previous username BTW?

 

Absolutely, what pete said. You would start warning aircraft that they were heading towards your airspace some time before they crossed into it. This is what the UK does when Russian bombers are testing our air defences.

 

The surviving pilot of a Russian plane shot down by Turkey on the Syrian border has said no warning was given.

 

TBF hes not going to say yes I strayed into Turkish airspace and yes they gave me repeated warnings to stay out.

Edited November 25, 2015 by 999tigger

[PeteMorris 10]

Why are there so many people online getting confused like you?

They didn't warn them 10 times that they were in their airspace,they warned them they were about to enter their airspace

Spreading misinformation,and then linking to infowars of all sites

What was your previous username BTW?

 

Well be that as it may, the plain fact is that the Russians were (if we believe Turkey's claim) in their airspace for no more than 17 seconds (barely enough time to wander into the kitchen and put the kettle on for a brew) , and were clearly no threat to anything on the Turkish side of the border, yet they chose to down the aircraft. It just makes me think that the Turks have more than a passing interest in whatever comes over the border from Syria.

 

So according to Russia now, they'll have to put up with far superior aircraft escorting Russian bomber aircraft...Not quite such an easy kill.

[phantom309 10]

On news night last night there was a film showing a Russian rescue helicopter having to make an emergency landing after being fired on while it was searching for the pilot and this was destroyed by Turkman rebels killing a crew member.

 

I think this will be a lot more significant as Russia could now deploy all its fire power to attack the the Turkman rebels and free Syrian army rebel groups and leave the western nations to attack IS.

I know they have already being do this with some attacks on IS as it was reported they have destroyed 1000 road tankers in the last 5 days but their main aim now will be to ensure that their own forces are free from attacks by the various rebel groups which will be justified by the Turkman rebels shooting at the pilots and destroying the helicopter.

 

Syrian air space will be under Russian command as they were asked by the legitimate Syrian government for assistance and have a large number of aircraft there.

It does seem rather confusing when most western spokesmen keep going on about getting Russia on board with them when Russia already as the lead by being there on the ground there and most likely running things on behalf of Syria which could result in the western nations having to work under Russian directive and completely opposite to the views which the west is trying to get us to believe.