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Can you ban people from a shop or workplace for covering their face?

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What is the purpose of the original question?

 

There's a difference between a 'self subscribed rule' and a belief.

 

Saying you shouldn't serve someone until a Bhurka is removed is like saying Vegetarians shouldn't be served in McDonalds until they agree to eat meat. Yes, both are choices, but they are also both based on the belief of the person. Wearing a motorcycle helmet isn't based on any form of belief, it's just a safety device.

Edited by Sidla

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What is the purpose of the original question?

 

There's a difference between a 'self subscribed rule' and a belief.

 

Saying you shouldn't serve someone until a Bhurka is removed is like saying Vegetarians shouldn't be served in McDonalds until they agree to eat meat. Yes, both are choices, but they are also both based on the belief of the person. Wearing a motorcycle helmet isn't based on any form of belief, it's just a safety device.

 

Covering face with Burkha is not part of belief or everyone in that religion would wear it. It's a choice and outlawed in many countries. Comparing it to vegetarians being served in McDonalds is silly. Customers just ask for what they want, they don't say I'm a vegetarian before placing their order. The concept of being able to see someones face should apply to all in this climate

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What is the purpose of the original question?

 

There's a difference between a 'self subscribed rule' and a belief.

 

Saying you shouldn't serve someone until a Bhurka is removed is like saying Vegetarians shouldn't be served in McDonalds until they agree to eat meat. Yes, both are choices, but they are also both based on the belief of the person. Wearing a motorcycle helmet isn't based on any form of belief, it's just a safety device.

 

But serving staff doesn't have to examine the reasons of one's choices. They might perceive covered face as a threat.

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It is now a criminal offence for women in the Italian-speaking canton in southern Switzerland to cover their faces with the garments in all public places, including shops, restaurants, public buildings and behind the wheel of a car. Other forms of face coverings such as masks, balaclavas or crash helmets will still be permitted.

I find it strange that they are exempting balaclavas and such.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-to-be-fined-up-to-6500-for-wearing-burkas-in-swiss-region-a6747936.html

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It is now a criminal offence for women in the Italian-speaking canton in southern Switzerland to cover their faces with the garments in all public places, including shops, restaurants, public buildings and behind the wheel of a car. Other forms of face coverings such as masks, balaclavas or crash helmets will still be permitted.

I find it strange that they are exempting balaclavas and such.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/women-to-be-fined-up-to-6500-for-wearing-burkas-in-swiss-region-a6747936.html

 

Pretty clearly an attack on personal liberty.

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2015 at 12:41 ----------

 

Covering face with Burkha is not part of belief or everyone in that religion would wear it. It's a choice and outlawed in many countries. Comparing it to vegetarians being served in McDonalds is silly. Customers just ask for what they want, they don't say I'm a vegetarian before placing their order. The concept of being able to see someones face should apply to all in this climate

 

So you're right to see my face is more important than my right to cover it if I like?

 

What other control do you think you should have, should slouchy jeans be banned because you don't like them? Should visible tatoo's not be allowed because someone might feel threatened in their presence?

 

---------- Post added 25-11-2015 at 12:42 ----------

 

 

There's a difference between a 'self subscribed rule' and a belief.

 

Is there? Can you explain what the difference is?

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The niqab or burka is in the main worn by a very, very few teeny tiny little Asian women, whose covered faces are hardly a threat to anyone's security. Do you imagine they are snarling at you under there? Does this make you afraid? Any real threat from anyone is not a face covering but a concealed weapon. Should we all strip to our undercrackers in order to get served? As to those who feel 'uncomfortable' when seeing someone wearing the niqab - I suggest they develop a bit of resilience. Also I expect that most of these niqab wearing women would remove it if involved in a long conversation with a lip reader. Personally I think it a nonsense for women to cover themselves but I like to live and let live. This is a non-problem people, get a grip - life is too short.

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Covering face with Burkha is not part of belief or everyone in that religion would wear it. It's a choice and outlawed in many countries. Comparing it to vegetarians being served in McDonalds is silly. Customers just ask for what they want, they don't say I'm a vegetarian before placing their order. The concept of being able to see someones face should apply to all in this climate

That's like saying Catholics and Protestants should adhere to exactly the same code as they are all Christians.

 

It's not silly at all comparing it to vegetarianism. Should meat serving places have the right not to serve Vegetarians because they don't believe it's right to eat meat? Of course they shouldn't. Wearing a bhurka is a belief too so people shouldn't have any right to discriminate.

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So you're right to see my face is more important than my right to cover it if I like?

 

What other control do you think you should have, should slouchy jeans be banned because you don't like them? Should visible tatoo's not be allowed because someone might feel threatened in their presence?

 

 

Well yes actually. At times the wants of the majority should overtake the rights of the minority if the majorities ask is sensible and the minority will suffer minimally. I think in this case that we have reached that point.

 

Having a blanket rule of no facial coverings in public is taking things too far but I can totally understand why people would want it. I think the law is probably about right at the moment that shop owners can ask people to remove facial coverings or not be served.

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What other control do you think you should have, should slouchy jeans be banned because you don't like them?

 

Try getting into some nightclubs/casinos dressed in slouchy jeans...

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The niqab or burka is in the main worn by a very, very few teeny tiny little Asian women, whose covered faces are hardly a threat to anyone's security. Do you imagine they are snarling at you under there? Does this make you afraid? Any real threat from anyone is not a face covering but a concealed weapon. Should we all strip to our undercrackers in order to get served? As to those who feel 'uncomfortable' when seeing someone wearing the niqab - I suggest they develop a bit of resilience. Also I expect that most of these niqab wearing women would remove it if involved in a long conversation with a lip reader. Personally I think it a nonsense for women to cover themselves but I like to live and let live. This is a non-problem people, get a grip - life is too short.

 

I agree mostly, but this isn't a conversation about the niqab. It's about any facial coverings and says a lot that already this conversation has decided to only discuss muslims.

 

My parents used to run a petrol station when I was a kid and I often worked shifts to help them out when I was back home. The sight of someone coming in wearing a motorbike helmet was worrying, especially if they'd not bought any fuel. Of course I was over-reacting and nothing bad ever happened but you can't shake an initial reaction. I was also a biker at the time and always took my helmet off before entering a shop as a matter of courtesy.

Edited by sgtkate

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I agree mostly, but this isn't a conversation about the niqab. It's about any facial coverings and says a lot that already this conversation has decided to only discuss muslims.

 

My parents used to run a petrol station when I was a kid and I often worked shifts to help them out when I was back home. The sight of someone coming in wearing a motorbike was worrying, especially if they'd not bought any fuel. Of course I was over-reacting and nothing bad ever happened but you can't shake an initial reaction. I was also a biker at the time and always took my helmet off before entering a shop as a matter of courtesy.

 

I'm surprised they could get through the door.. :)

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The niqab or burka is in the main worn by a very, very few teeny tiny little Asian women, whose covered faces are hardly a threat to anyone's security. Do you imagine they are snarling at you under there? Does this make you afraid? Any real threat from anyone is not a face covering but a concealed weapon. Should we all strip to our undercrackers in order to get served? As to those who feel 'uncomfortable' when seeing someone wearing the niqab - I suggest they develop a bit of resilience. Also I expect that most of these niqab wearing women would remove it if involved in a long conversation with a lip reader. Personally I think it a nonsense for women to cover themselves but I like to live and let live. This is a non-problem people, get a grip - life is too short.

 

We in the west take a lot from face to face interaction. You seem to think that when we speak to one another we only hear the voice and thats it. Im afraid you are very wrong.

 

Then there is the security threat. You try to slant the argument by say a few tiny tiny asian women when this is completely wrong. Asian women are not ALL small, in fact they are in the majority of cases just as tall as everyone else. So this comment is just designed to try and undermine the argument. There have been cases of men wearing burkas to escape capture by security forces across the world.

 

I totally disagree with the Burka. its not a religious garment, but rather a cover to make tiny brain men think they can control women and women who wear it are indoctrinated into thinking they are making a choice.

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