Is it illegal for a British citizen living in uk to support ISIS?

[Cyclone 10]

It never has been deemed so to my knowledge because more specific legislation applies and the IRA was also not a state. Something that is not a state cannot be an enemy of the state. Terrorist groups are defined as just that, not as states we are at war with (despite the political rhetoric sometimes).

 

Do you think that renouncing your British citizenship would see you safe from prosecution, I don't...

[sgtkate 10]

It never has been deemed so to my knowledge because more specific legislation applies and the IRA was also not a state. Something that is not a state cannot be an enemy of the state. Terrorist groups are defined as just that, not as states we are at war with (despite the political rhetoric sometimes).

 

Do you think that renouncing your British citizenship would see you safe from prosecution, I don't...

 

I don't know. Again has there been a legal precedent? If you aren't a British citizen but commit a crime on British soil then you can be prosecuted for it. However, a Brit committing a crime abroad is not subject to UK laws are they? So technically they are not under UK jurisdiction if they go to Syria, but if they have given up their UK passport they have no right to enter the country, so I can't see how they could be prosecuted for a crime.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Interestingly, I was reading about an 18 year old teenager who was prosecuted for trying to fight against ISIS. She got 21 months in a young offenders institute for attempting to join the Kurdish PKK to fight against ISIS. More here.

[999tigger 10]

Interestingly, I was reading about an 18 year old teenager who was prosecuted for trying to fight against ISIS. She got 21 months in a young offenders institute for attempting to join the Kurdish PKK to fight against ISIS. More here.

 

Yes id already read about that. Ironic really. It reminds me of all the men from this country who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 20:26 ----------

 

I don't know. Again has there been a legal precedent? If you aren't a British citizen but commit a crime on British soil then you can be prosecuted for it. However, a Brit committing a crime abroad is not subject to UK laws are they? So technically they are not under UK jurisdiction if they go to Syria, but if they have given up their UK passport they have no right to enter the country, so I can't see how they could be prosecuted for a crime.

 

Kate I think the treason thing is a bit of a red herring. They have a raft of terrorist offences that they prefer to prosecute under as they are more specific. They prefer to use those.

 

Part of the reason is that they prefer not to give ISIS the same type of dignity as they might a foreign power and its better of they prosecute and treat them as terrorists.

 

The other aspect is that if you charge everyone with treason, then there is no inbetween as its a life sentence and one of the dilemmas they have is that some returnees are more useful if they cna be de radicalised and get across their disilluionment with what they find over there and deter others. So one charge doesnt really fit all. Its been mooted to use treason, but for the moment they choose not to.

[mafya 246]

Interestingly, I was reading about an 18 year old teenager who was prosecuted for trying to fight against ISIS. She got 21 months in a young offenders institute for attempting to join the Kurdish PKK to fight against ISIS. More here.

 

Why don't they do the same to Jewish Britons going to fight in Israel? = http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448

 

http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/labour-mp-will-british-idf-soldiers-treated-like-fighters/

 

Some uk citizens also fighting against Isis= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/22/uk-mercenaries-fighting-islamic-state-terrorist-syria

Edited December 1, 2015 by mafya

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Why don't they do the same to Jewish Britons going to fight in Israel? = http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448

 

http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/labour-mp-will-british-idf-soldiers-treated-like-fighters/

 

Some uk citizens also fighting against Isis= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/22/uk-mercenaries-fighting-islamic-state-terrorist-syria

 

I'm guessing that the PKK is an illegal terrorist organisation, and she was judged on her attempts to join it.

[999tigger 10]

Why don't they do the same to Jewish Britons going to fight in Israel? = http://blogs.channel4.com/factcheck/factcheck-britons-fight-israel/18448

 

http://www.jewishnews.co.uk/labour-mp-will-british-idf-soldiers-treated-like-fighters/

 

Some uk citizens also fighting against Isis= http://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/nov/22/uk-mercenaries-fighting-islamic-state-terrorist-syria

 

Because they are a sovereign country and we either arent at war with them or they arent on the proscribed terror list. It says so in the article you linked, didnt you read it? Fact check is always interesting.

[Cyclone 10]

I don't know. Again has there been a legal precedent? If you aren't a British citizen but commit a crime on British soil then you can be prosecuted for it. However, a Brit committing a crime abroad is not subject to UK laws are they?

Yes, there are certain laws that we've decided apply, I'm not quite sure legally how we manage this, perhaps they are worded such that it's the act of travelling with the intention to commit the act that is the crime. For example, sex tourism.

So technically they are not under UK jurisdiction if they go to Syria, but if they have given up their UK passport they have no right to enter the country, so I can't see how they could be prosecuted for a crime.

 

I posted the list of recently introduced terrorism related offences, it included attending a place of training and the act of training. I don't believe we require that the training camp or the act be in the UK for this to be an offence.

[sgtkate 10]

Yes id already read about that. Ironic really. It reminds me of all the men from this country who went to fight in the Spanish Civil War.

 

---------- Post added 01-12-2015 at 20:26 ----------

 

 

Kate I think the treason thing is a bit of a red herring. They have a raft of terrorist offences that they prefer to prosecute under as they are more specific. They prefer to use those.

 

Part of the reason is that they prefer not to give ISIS the same type of dignity as they might a foreign power and its better of they prosecute and treat them as terrorists.

 

The other aspect is that if you charge everyone with treason, then there is no inbetween as its a life sentence and one of the dilemmas they have is that some returnees are more useful if they cna be de radicalised and get across their disilluionment with what they find over there and deter others. So one charge doesnt really fit all. Its been mooted to use treason, but for the moment they choose not to.

 

That's a fair enough point, but I've said many times that we should change or laws to reflect that we officially at war with ISIS so they become an enemy properly. Then we can ditch all this rubbish about terrorist groups and so on and just fight a foreign army. However, that comes with consequences like Geneva convention and invading foreign lands, and allows our government to consistency break the law with impunity, so it's pretty obvious why we've not gone this route.