Junior Doctors row: 98% vote to strike

[*_ash_* 88]

Have a read of this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/nhs/11887308/How-much-are-junior-doctors-paid-and-why-are-they-threatening-to-strike.html

 

You have to also take into account the amount of bad blood that exists between the junior doctors and the DoH, when the DoH tried to force through the first set of proposals that would have cut many junior doctors pay to a level not seen since the early 21st century.

 

That doesn't alter the fact that your question was loaded (and nothing to do with what I said).

[MLAR 10]

I'd sack the lot of them who strike.

 

Good plan.

 

Then we could employ some second division doctors.

 

I'm amazed that more people don't get annoyed by this sort of attitude. When we have bankers, or lawyers holding the country to ransom, we get told that we have to pay top wages to get the best?

 

When doctors, or teachers dare to complain about wages and conditions of service, they are told to get on with it and stop moaning.

 

I'd like to live in a country with first division doctors and teachers. I couldn't care less how good the bankers are.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

That doesn't alter the fact that your question was loaded (and nothing to do with what I said).

 

On this thread you suggested that we should sack all the junior doctors for striking, so it does seem a pertinent question as to whether or not you'd willingly accept a drop in pay.

[999tigger 10]

Be awesome if they all go sacked, just the sort of enlightened Sheffield Forum solution I've come to expect.

[*_ash_* 88]

Good plan.

 

Then we could employ some second division doctors.

 

I'm amazed that more people don't get annoyed by this sort of attitude. When we have bankers, or lawyers holding the country to ransom, we get told that we have to pay top wages to get the best?

 

When doctors, or teachers dare to complain about wages and conditions of service, they are told to get on with it and stop moaning.

 

I'd like to live in a country with first division doctors and teachers. I couldn't care less how good the bankers are.

 

This is most bizarre strawman of them all.

 

Did I mention bankers, in fact did anyone?

 

Were you the guy on the news who said 'well... I'm putting my vote ball in favour of strike... ' because footballers earn £200,000 a week, and nurses get nothing'

 

:hihi: (he did make me laugh the most in the 'non-biased TV' BBC poll, though I think it was a joke)

 

What is more funny about this bold MLAR, is your inability to see the unions ABILITY to holding the country to ransom, and I don't mean as a whole, I mean individuals with as much power as anyone with money like these lawyers and bankers. Much like people's arguments about Cameron and his Eton friends.

 

-

 

On this thread you suggested that we should sack all the junior doctors for striking, so it does seem a pertinent question as to whether or not you'd willingly accept a drop in pay.

 

A more pertinent question to what I wrote would perhaps have been 'would I strike in this position? , or even more silly, 'Is this the position you would take if you were in charge?' The second of which is ludicrous when you have read my posts in the past, which I know you have.

 

On this thread you suggested that we should sack all the junior doctors for striking, so it does seem a pertinent question as to whether or not you'd willingly accept a drop in pay.

 

On this thread, you saw what I wrote, and of any of the responders who I received, I'd be pretty sure you would know what I was doing.

 

I was copying what is said in here about the private sector. Basically, **** 'em. Do what we do with everything else, import it, and wave bye-bye to the workers.

 

-

 

On the whole, I don't agree with striking, and have myself avoided unions because if the potential for a strike is available, I won't be associated, or outcast for not agreeing to disrupt other people in the name of a leader who has an agenda that I don't agree with/ don't think genuine, if I'm outnumbered. I'd rather be an outcast for not being in one.

[lottiecass 17]

You have never been involved in an industrial dispute ash? sounds like you have not,I have and can tell you that the unions are very useful negotiators,no underlying agendas for them in my case only the members and believe it or not the nonmembers get the same changes in contract and wages.

[Cyclone 10]

I'd sack the lot of them who strike.

 

Genius, you've really thought hard about how to run the NHS I see.

 

---------- Post added 14-01-2016 at 09:10 ----------

 

 

er foreign staff? After all, 25% of the NHS is propped up with foreign staff.

 

All those foreign, well qualified, Doctors who are clamouring to work here... Oh wait, there are far better places to work, and that's before the new contract is imposed.

 

---------- Post added 14-01-2016 at 09:12 ----------

 

to your addition,

 

 

 

 

Another good reason to get rid of the ones striking.

 

Holding a country at ransom with emergency care is absolutely unacceptable in my opinion. Get rid.

 

There are plenty of good medical staff in the world, the only shame is that because of people like this, other countries are deprived of their own needs.

 

Do you even understand why they are striking?

 

We HAVE some of the best medical staff in the world, and they're striking because the government are trying to impose changes which will have serious negative effects on the level of care that is offered.

[Eric Arthur 10]

We HAVE some of the best medical staff in the world

Lets some good evidence and the parameters for your your claim please. Something not written by a journalist.

 

they're striking because the government are trying to impose changes which will have serious negative effects on the level of care that is offered.

 

And for this claim too. No random links to websites with Hollywood celebrity listicles either please.

[Cyclone 10]

No, I don't think I'm going to play your silly games. Those are my opinions. If you have different opinions feel free to try to prove me wrong.

[Eric Arthur 10]

No, I don't think I'm going to play your silly games. Those are my opinions. If you have different opinions feel free to try to prove me wrong.

 

You make it hard to believe a word you say. At a guess I'd say that you think that the NHS staff are some of the best in the world because you know a nurse. But ok, let's indulge you to underline your silly game of making claims that simply aren't true, because by now you should know that I tend to know the answer before I write it here, to avoid looking silly.

 

The UN's World Health Organisation puts the United Kingdom at 18th worldwide.

The Euro Health Consumer Index put the UK at 14th in Europe.

 

The NHS is patently not stuffed full of some of the best in the world, or if it is they are seriously underperforming by killing more people and creating a lower life expectancy than more than a dozen other nations. If you want to keep on kidding yourself that the NHS is world leader go ahead and knock yourself out but expect a 5 hour wait before you get treated.

[Cyclone 10]

Sure I do. How can you disbelieve something that someone states is an opinion?

If it makes you feel better, you can believe that those aren't my opinions and that actually I think something else.

 

Feel free to prove my opinions to be wrong though.

 

I should probably point out, just so you don't look really silly, that I said "some of"... Because you're already busy straw manning against things I didn't say.

 

Have the nasty party sent you some sort of play book, to help you in their spin war against the NHS by the way? Or are you just making it up as you go?

 

I'll add, for your edification, that I actually know a lot of junior doctors, not so many nurses. I can also read.

Edited January 14, 2016 by Cyclone

[999tigger 10]

Lets some good evidence and the parameters for your your claim please. Something not written by a journalist.

 

 

 

And for this claim too. No random links to websites with Hollywood celebrity listicles either please.

 

1. Claiming to have some of the best medical staff in the world, is difficult because there are no real comparisons on the overall quality of staff. You could have the best staff in the world, but the most underfunded system, which would skew any calculation.

 

As the strike is about Dr's then I think its fair to say we have some of the best junior Drs in the world because our medical schools rank highly compared to others as some of the best in the world. They are the ones who produce the junior Drs. Upi cna look at various surveys and it mentions 2or 3 in the top 10 and 5-7 in the top 30. The rest are overwhelmingly in the US.

 

2. The NHS has a funding, recruitment and retention problem of these junior Drs with up to a third leaving the NHS within two years. That means we have to recruit from elsewhere, which means the quality of who we recruit is lower in terms of language and training.

 

So will the changes have a serious impact on healthcare? Its not going to make it a more attractive option for junior rs and the recruitment/ retention problem is going to increase. If you wnat to make changes that your workforce doesnt like (even if they are for the better), then they cna make their own minds up and react accordingly. leave or strike. the NHS is one of the few areas where the Cons are not trusted over Labour.