What does it mean to be "left" politically?

[Vague_Boy 10]

Not hating. But if you think the rich are chosen in a darwinian manner you need a reality check.

 

---------- Post added 14-11-2015 at 00:38 ----------

 

E.g. you have no idea what you are talking about.

 

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Darwinian

adjective Dar·win·i·an \där-ˈwi-nē-ən\

 

: of or relating to Charles Darwin or to the ideas and theories of Charles Darwin

 

: of or relating to a situation in which only people, businesses, etc., with the strongest skills or abilities are successful

[unbeliever 10]

Despite unbeliever's superb treatise on the subject, socialism is a term referring to the ownership and control of the means of production, which was developed (though didn't originate) during the upheaval of the Industrial Revolution.

 

If you believe in the workers' ownership of the means of production or, at least, democratic control of the means of production then you might be a socialist, otherwise you're probably not.

 

I still think you're describing a radical socialist or communist.

I seem to have a majority of over 80% in that opinion.

[onetwo07 10]

If I thought 80% of people called a car a fridge, it would still be a car.

 

You asked what 'socialism' was and I have defined it's key ideological principle. Read some Marx if you want to know about the difference between socialism and communism.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

My observations on liberals:

 

Liberals are chronically confused about whether "freedoms" means liberties or entitlements. Also whether said "freedom" is to be achieved by the state protecting free citizens from oppression by each other, or by removing oppressions of the state itself.

 

Those interested in minimal state oppression and liberties rather than entitlements are often referred to as libertarians for clarity.

 

I think that the difficulties/disagreements arise as you say when people want to use their freedoms to limit the freedoms of others. Then it becomes a lot more complicated.

[unbeliever 10]

If I thought 80% of people called a car a fridge, it would still be a car.

 

You asked what 'socialism' was and I have defined it's key ideological principle. Read some Marx if you want to know about the difference between socialism and communism.

 

If enough people call a car a fridge, then eventually the word for a 4 wheeled personal transport vehicle would become "fridge". We'd probably start calling refrigerators something else for clarity. That's how language works.

 

That's not the point though. You're talking about absolute socialism. Relative socialism means moving society in that direction.

[I1L2T3 10]

If enough people call a car a fridge, then eventually the word for a 4 wheeled personal transport vehicle would become "fridge". We'd probably start calling refrigerators something else for clarity. That's how language works.

 

That's not the point though. You're talking about absolute socialism. Relative socialism means moving society in that direction.

 

You are a relative socialist by your own definition because you want some things that people you class as socialist would also want.

 

You have also described yourself as a moderate capitalist because you want things that people you class as capitalist would also want.

 

The truth is > 90% of us will have a mix of beliefs too, a mix of things that could be interpreted as socialist or capitalist.

 

To determine whether you are right or left on the political spectrum in the UK means working out where the centre of the spectrum is. Personally I'd place Labour (as a whole when you look at the counterbalance of New Labour to Corbyn) and the LibDems just about in the centre, the Tories just to the right. SNP, PC and the Greens just to the left of centre. Ukip play a clever game of managing to be the right of the Tories in certain policy areas and to the left of Labour in others.

 

To place people and parties to the left or right is accepted political parlance in the UK

[unbeliever 10]

You are a relative socialist by your own definition because you want some things that people you class as socialist would also want.

 

You have also described yourself as a moderate capitalist because you want things that people you class as capitalist would also want.

 

The truth is > 90% of us will have a mix of beliefs too, a mix of things that could be interpreted as socialist or capitalist.

 

To determine whether you are right or left on the political spectrum in the UK means working out where the centre of the spectrum is. Personally I'd place Labour (as a whole when you look at the counterbalance of New Labour to Corbyn) and the LibDems just about in the centre, the Tories just to the right. SNP, PC and the Greens just to the left of centre. Ukip play a clever game of managing to be the right of the Tories in certain policy areas and to the left of Labour in others.

 

To place people and parties to the left or right is accepted political parlance in the UK

 

 

So right and left mean less or more socialism respectively. Which is what I've been trying to say all along.

Where do the BNP fit into this description of the political spectrum?

[I1L2T3 10]

So right and left mean less or more socialism respectively. Which is what I've been trying to say all along.

Where do the BNP fit into this description of the political spectrum?

 

Or it could mean more or less capitalism, using your definitions.

 

As I have stated many times I'm a strong believer in capitalism. I've never believed the state should own all means of production or tightly control the economy (the thought of it makes my blood run cold) and because of that I'd reject being called a socialist.

 

To take one example of something I care deeply about - the environment - practically every country that experimented with socialism ended up with heavily polluting industry. But our experience in the UK in the 19th century and into the 20th century also shows us that if capitalism is left unrestrained then we can also end up with heavily polluting industry. I wouldn't want that. I can't imagine anybody would.

 

As for the BNP they were also had a strange mix of left of centre social and economic policy and right of centre policy on immigration, equality etc... The fact the party never shook off its racist origins tells you all you need to know about the more right wing elements of policy. So I'd say like Ukip it managed to meld elements from the left and right although far less successfully than Ukip.

[Titanic99 10]

I know it’s sad but I find these types of discussions intriguing.

 

In the past when I posted more frequently on here I had many a discussion with people who believed they were right-wing and they took an instant dislike to what they perceived to be my left-wing views on some matters.

 

The huge irony was that when they actually discussed the issues and stopped attacking the individual, their views were incredibly similar on many subjects to which I pointed out to them that they were very left-wing without knowing it.

 

Like me, they care about jobs, the NHS, the Welfare State and Education, yet for some reason people on the left and right of politics can’t stand each other when their policies are very similar.

 

Very odd indeed!

[I1L2T3 10]

I know it’s sad but I find these types of discussions intriguing.

 

In the past when I posted more frequently on here I had many a discussion with people who believed they were right-wing and they took an instant dislike to what they perceived to be my left-wing views on some matters.

 

The huge irony was that when they actually discussed the issues and stopped attacking the individual, their views were incredibly similar on many subjects to which I pointed out to them that they were very left-wing without knowing it.

 

Like me, they care about jobs, the NHS, the Welfare State and Education, yet for some reason people on the left and right of politics can’t stand each other when their policies are very similar.

 

Very odd indeed!

 

The vast majority of people in this country hold a mix of what could be considered left and right wing views. Most of us want to own a house and are entirely comfortable with private enterprise and the idea of working in the private sector. Yet we are fiercely protective of institutions like the NHS and the idea of free education, and resistant to things like the introduction of toll roads. The idea of renationalising the railways is also popular.

[unbeliever 10]

The vast majority of people in this country hold a mix of what could be considered left and right wing views. Most of us want to own a house and are entirely comfortable with private enterprise and the idea of working in the private sector. Yet we are fiercely protective of institutions like the NHS and the idea of free education, and resistant to things like the introduction of toll roads. The idea of renationalising the railways is also popular.

 

The railway infrastructure is already owned by the state. And it is that which is the source of the high prices and poor reliability. The pricing of tickets is heavily regulated by the state. The private companies involved are effectively contractors.

 

I've singularly unimpressed with the NHS. I'm all for the state ensuring universal healthcare but I'm not convinced that nationalising almost the whole thing is the best way.

 

I'm glad we've finally agreed that "left" means "socialist".

[gomgeg 10]

I know it’s sad but I find these types of discussions intriguing.

 

In the past when I posted more frequently on here I had many a discussion with people who believed they were right-wing and they took an instant dislike to what they perceived to be my left-wing views on some matters.

 

The huge irony was that when they actually discussed the issues and stopped attacking the individual, their views were incredibly similar on many subjects to which I pointed out to them that they were very left-wing without knowing it.

 

Like me, they care about jobs, the NHS, the Welfare State and Education, yet for some reason people on the left and right of politics can’t stand each other when their policies are very similar.

 

Very odd indeed!

I think you're quite right, both left and right do care about those things, where they differ is how they are dealt with. If you look at unemployment the right will focus on the long term unemployed who have no intention of working, the left will focus on bankers and fat cats who should be taxed more to help the unemployed.

As for the other things you mentioned the right will blame mass immigration and a rising birth rate for putting pressure on those services, and the left will say we should be raising taxes and showing more tolerance.

Take your pick who's right, this is a discussion forum and I don't suppose more than a minuscule percentage have ever changed their views by the others argument.