Have the new trams arrived yet?

[dutch 68]

They look very similar but appears to have a slightly slimmer bottom when looking at the space right under the doors.

[Guest busdriver1]

They do run quite close along most of the route yes, but remember the Tram Train is only a trial, so might not be around for ever.

 

The BRT and the associated link road are really needed, especially if you like shopping at ikea.

 

After what the tram train "trial" is costing can you really see it being scrapped after 2 years? It is nothing more than a back door scheme to extend the tram system having been turned down at every attempt in the past.

[dutch 68]

After what the tram train "trial" is costing can you really see it being scrapped after 2 years? It is nothing more than a back door scheme to extend the tram system having been turned down at every attempt in the past.

 

What this silly experiment cost could have saved the steel industry and helped many others. But just like the current busses cutbacks, if it duplicates services and is unnecessary they will not keep pouring money into it forever once the experiment is over.

Edited November 21, 2015 by dutch

[mrmw 10]

What this silly experiment cost could have saved the steel industry and helped many others. But just like the current busses cutbacks, if it duplicates services and is unnecessary they will not keep pouring money into it forever once the experiment is over.

 

While some like yourself (and busdriver1 who is negative regarding anything to do with Stagecoach),others like me don't consider this a 'silly experiment'.

 

The money has nothing to do with saving the steel industry it comes from seperate departmental budgets ie:- network rail, sypte and finance from europe... The steel industry - to use your argument - could be saved by cutting international aid to countries that put people into space perhaps? (if indeed it's worth saving)

[dutch 68]

They want to test a newly invented design of tram/train wheels to see if it really works.

That was the real reason this is being done now, the tram does copy what the train already does now.

[ShefStealth 10]

It was my understanding that this was originally going to be a full tram/train trial, so they were going to also electrify the relevent section of the heavy-guage railway network (to Rotherham) at 25Kv and have the trams switch modes when necessary. I've now seen that they're electrifying these sections of railway to standard tram spec, which is pointless and stupidly shortsighted. They seem to have learnt nothing from the old Woodhead days, electrifying sections to the wrong standard is money down the drain. In 10 years time, when Network Rail are pitching electrification projects for infill after Midland Mainline's completion (if that happens) then they'll end up ripping out this newly electrified section to upgrade to 25Kv anyway!

[Andy C 86]

They want to test a newly invented design of tram/train wheels to see if it really works.

That was the real reason this is being done now, the tram does copy what the train already does now.

 

The train doesn't have stations at Parkgate, Carbrook, Valley Centertainment, Sheffield Arena, Attercliffe or Nunnery Square - despite the railway running past those locations. The train is also confined to Sheffield Station and cannot run up to the Cathedral for the City Centre proper. The tram-train ties in Network Rail and Supertram infrastructure to create new links.

 

Additionally the main line railway capacity won't allow any additional services between Rotherham and Sheffield via Meadowhall at peak times, the tram-train provides a second rail route between them.

 

But as you say, it is also about testing the concept and technology to see if it works in the UK, if Sheffield makes a success of it then it can be rolled out across the UK in a way that enhances the rail and light rail networks at lower cost than a full on new heavy rail line.

 

---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 14:20 ----------

 

It was my understanding that this was originally going to be a full tram/train trial, so they were going to also electrify the relevent section of the heavy-guage railway network (to Rotherham) at 25Kv and have the trams switch modes when necessary. I've now seen that they're electrifying these sections of railway to standard tram spec, which is pointless and stupidly shortsighted. They seem to have learnt nothing from the old Woodhead days, electrifying sections to the wrong standard is money down the drain. In 10 years time, when Network Rail are pitching electrification projects for infill after Midland Mainline's completion (if that happens) then they'll end up ripping out this newly electrified section to upgrade to 25Kv anyway!

 

Slightly disappointing but I'm led to believe the electrification will be designed to a standard that will allow upgrade rather than ripping out and replacing should it be necessary.

 

I imagine it is to cut Network Rail's costs, however there is a practical side in that Supertram engineers can maintain tramway electrification so there would be no relying on Network Rail staff to travel a long distance to do any work on the system, which would be especially beneficial in the case of the wires getting damaged during service hours and unplanned repairs being required urgently.

 

---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 14:28 ----------

 

They do run quite close along most of the route yes, but remember the Tram Train is only a trial, so might not be around for ever.

 

The BRT and the associated link road are really needed, especially if you like shopping at ikea.

 

I think the BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) scheme is really just a veil to obtain funds to improve the roads in the area. I cannot really see another direct Sheffield-Rotherham bus service being laid on as well as the 69 and X78, however the new road link that bypasses the Tinsley M1 roundabout will be very useful.

 

I do recall when the BRT was first announced the talk of the purpose of the additional BRT bus services wasn't about the end to end Sheffield-Rotherham traffic, it was about servicing the new up-and-coming employment areas nearby. In the last recast of the Rotherham area bus network there were changes to improve buses to areas like Waverley, Sheffield Business Park, Parkway Markets etc, the opening of this new road link will probably see the next stage in such bus network development.

 

There will also be other improvements to the road network and tram stop funded by Ikea as part of their planning permission.

 

---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 14:34 ----------

 

What this silly experiment cost could have saved the steel industry and helped many others. But just like the current busses cutbacks, if it duplicates services and is unnecessary they will not keep pouring money into it forever once the experiment is over.

 

The Steel industry (certain specialisms aside) is losing money. Diverting one pot of cash from a transport project will only prop up the steel works for a short period then what? That is a whole different issue.

 

You are right that taxpayers money will not be poured into tram train forever. The set up costs and funding for the trial period is being met by the DfT, after which Stagecoach Supertram is expected to take it on commercially if it is to continue running. The idea is passenger numbers build up sufficiently during the trial period to make it viable afterwards.

[Annie Bynnol 612]

Parkgate to Tinsley is not part of current electrification infill plans.

The infill plans for the delayed CP5 and probably into 6 were:

Sheffield - Masborough- Swinton- Doncaster

Swinton- Moorthorpe

Chesterfield- Masborough

 

MML catenary will be different to other mainline overhead electrification as it will be built for lower speeds.

 

Double- triple voltage technology is reasonably well understood in the UK and Europe.

As only a short stretch of catenary is required for the trial the extra cost of a new 25k substation became the largest cost fo that part of the electrification part of the project.

[dutch 68]

The train doesn't have stations at Parkgate, Carbrook, Valley Centertainment, Sheffield Arena, Attercliffe or Nunnery Square - despite the railway running past those locations. The train is also confined to Sheffield Station and cannot run up to the Cathedral for the City Centre proper. The tram-train ties in Network Rail and Supertram infrastructure to create new links.

 

Additionally the main line railway capacity won't allow any additional services between Rotherham and Sheffield via Meadowhall at peak times, the tram-train provides a second rail route between them.

 

But as you say, it is also about testing the concept and technology to see if it works in the UK, if Sheffield makes a success of it then it can be rolled out across the UK in a way that enhances the rail and light rail networks at lower cost than a full on new heavy rail line.

 

 

supertram/rail project intentions

 

---------- Post added 22-11-2015 at 16:15 ----------

 

[tonywheatley 10]

I don't like this idea. Who wants to go to Rotherham (and who wants the people of Rotherham coming here!?).

 

Besides, surely this will be the final nail in the coffin for Rotherham town centre?

 

True who would want to go to rotherham. A scandelous place

[richard15 10]

I don't like the plan of trams to Rotherham;

Since i moved to Sheffield 20 years ago the tram system is the best development which sheffield has received. However looking across the penines to Manchester their tram system has trebled in size (and is still

growing) while ours is static. I welcome any new lines proposed in Sheffield

its well overdue.

However I donot support the extension to Rotherham as it duplicates what

is already there i.e. a train service to meadowhall and sheffield centre.

What is the point of duplicating it?

[Annie Bynnol 612]

I don't like the plan of trams to Rotherham;

Since i moved to Sheffield 20 years ago the tram system is the best development which sheffield has received. However looking across the penines to Manchester their tram system has trebled in size (and is still

growing) while ours is static. I welcome any new lines proposed in Sheffield

its well overdue.

However I donot support the extension to Rotherham as it duplicates what

is already there i.e. a train service to meadowhall and sheffield centre.

What is the point of duplicating it?

 

Please read the links provided in numerous posts that will explain- it is a trial to test a system, its free, it provides us with seven new trams and it might not last more than two years.