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M1 roadworks (Leeds and Chesterfield)

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The smart motorway is going to be anything but a joke.

 

On the M1 it is going to be different from the parts of the M62 where the hard shoulder is in and out of use. Our stretch of motorway is going to be 4 lanes running all the time, no hard shoulder at all.

 

 

you sure about that?, i thought it was going to be using the hard shoulder only at busy times

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you sure about that?, i thought it was going to be using the hard shoulder only at busy times

 

100% certain. 4 lane running, no hard shoulder.

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People stop on the hard shoulder of the motorways for numerous reasons, punctures, breakdowns, medical issues etc. Scary thing is there won't be anywhere to do this...

 

90% of stops on the hard shoulder are not breakdowns - everything from answering the phone, playing with the sat-nav, having a pee, getting something from the boot, hearing odd noises etc. The hard shoulder is a very dangerous place to be, maintaining organisations specifically limit stops for quick fixes like debris removal to 15 minutes maximum, anything more needs a closure with signs and cones, which puts temporary traffic management operatives at huge risk. The benefits of Smart motorways are clear, they remove the tempation to stop in a dangerous place, safegaurds are in place to monitor traffic speeds on a per lane basis, so breakdowns and other stops can be communicated back upstream and help can be sent to assist the trapped motorist. The collision statistics are clearly showing that fatal and weighted injuries are far lower after deployment of Smart Motorway Technologies than the same stretch of road beforehand. Collisions will still happen, however, risks are reduced, not just for motorists, but also for operatives working on the motorways each night as we sleep, fixing barriers, clearing drains, changing lightbulbs, checking structures and a 101 other things done each night on some part of the network.

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They remove the temptation to stop, and the ability to stop. And impede the emergency services.

 

I suppose if the stats really show that they're safer, then that must be true... But I'm really surprised.

 

It makes you wonder why hard shoulders ever existed, was there any evidence to support them?

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90% of stops on the hard shoulder are not breakdowns - everything from answering the phone, playing with the sat-nav, having a pee, getting something from the boot, hearing odd noises etc. The hard shoulder is a very dangerous place to be, maintaining organisations specifically limit stops for quick fixes like debris removal to 15 minutes maximum, anything more needs a closure with signs and cones, which puts temporary traffic management operatives at huge risk. The benefits of Smart motorways are clear, they remove the tempation to stop in a dangerous place, safegaurds are in place to monitor traffic speeds on a per lane basis, so breakdowns and other stops can be communicated back upstream and help can be sent to assist the trapped motorist. The collision statistics are clearly showing that fatal and weighted injuries are far lower after deployment of Smart Motorway Technologies than the same stretch of road beforehand. Collisions will still happen, however, risks are reduced, not just for motorists, but also for operatives working on the motorways each night as we sleep, fixing barriers, clearing drains, changing lightbulbs, checking structures and a 101 other things done each night on some part of the network.

 

Some fair points, but your forgetting one thing. When people are driving on the motorway and their car breaksdown/makes funny noises all common sense goes out the window. People panic and they will dive for the hardshoulder, although in this case it won't be there.

 

All there will be is a refuge around a mile apart. People will stop in the main carriageway (to check for a strange noise/fix a puncture/wonder about a light on the dashboard), and then when they do, they will get taken out by someone who hasn't seen them...

 

How do emergency services get through 4 blocked lanes to a serious collision? With a hard shoulder, heck of a lot easier.

 

How often do you see drivers ignoring the lane closure signs on gantries? Do we think they will obey them when ambulance/fire/police are trying to use that lane to get to help people???

 

So yes, risks reduced for workers on the motorway (although to do work on gantries etc it will involve closing a lane, reducing the capacity of the motorway, where as now it's done on the hard shoulder), but risks for others driving on the hard shoulder? Massively increased in my opinion.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

---------- Post added 26-09-2015 at 15:59 ----------

 

Plus have you ever come across a vehicle broken down in a live lane on the motorway??? I once saw a people carrier stopped in the roadworks near junction 30. How on earth everything avoided him I will never know, so many near misses. All at 50mph. What will happen when it is 70?

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Hi all, just a quick question.

 

Went to Meadowhall today from Doncaster way, so left Meadowhall and went onto the M1 at Junction 34 I believe. I remember seeing a 50 speed sign at the entrance to the motorway as I left Meadowhall but cannot remember if I kept to 50 unless I went off the M18 shortly afterwards. I am sure there was a sign on the average SPECS cameras saying 'not in use', I am also sure that lots of cars were passing me anyway,

 

Do I need not worry?

 

Thanks in advance

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Hi all, just a quick question.

 

Went to Meadowhall today from Doncaster way, so left Meadowhall and went onto the M1 at Junction 34 I believe. I remember seeing a 50 speed sign at the entrance to the motorway as I left Meadowhall but cannot remember if I kept to 50 unless I went off the M18 shortly afterwards. I am sure there was a sign on the average SPECS cameras saying 'not in use', I am also sure that lots of cars were passing me anyway,

 

Do I need not worry?

 

Thanks in advance

 

From what I remember this week, it's 50 as you enter the motorway at junction 34 south, then it ends shortly afterwards and returns back to a national speed limit. After that, there are SPECS in place ready for the next phase of roadworks for the SMART motorway, but they haven't started yet, so the cameras have the 'not in use' signs on.... I could be wrong though!

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Hi, thanks for that. I am pretty sure you're right with the SPECS cameras and signs, just wondering how far it is from the 50 signs as you join the motorway to the NSL limit signs? Is that particular 50 limit enforced, as the SPECS cameras are yet to be used?

 

Thanks in advance

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This situation I'm afraid is one of the wonders I just can't understand. We need additional capacity on our motorways but the way it happens at a snail's pace just beggars belief. I often think just who is responsible for letting contracts in the Department of Transport and who is actually holding these face-less wonders to account, what time scales are specified, why so much of the motorway is 'given up' to the contractors to do with as they seem to wish and are liquidated damages actually charged for over-runs to the contracts?

It beggars belief that this situation is just going on all the time and no-one seems to be able to do anything about it - we just put up with it, grin and bear it as though it was a freak of nature! I travel through the various roadworks regularly and seldom see any work-force - to see signs saying 'my dad works here' is a standing joke.

The whole system needs to be looked at and I would start by asking the following:-

Why so long stretches need to be handed over to the contractors in one go?

Why there isn't 24 hour working to reduce the length of contracts?

Just what is the estimated costs to individuals and the economy in time and money during these prolonged works?

Are liquidated damages actually imposed for any over-runs?

Who, if anyone letting the contracts or managing them, have any financial interests in the companies involved?

With the amount of costs to the taxpayer and massive inconvenience to the motorists and economy, if there isn't an independent body set up by Government to oversee this work, why isn't there?

If any contractor isn't performing and treating the public like they are mindless idiots who will put up with anything - if they are invited to tender for future contracts - why are they?

Would love to have any insight into any of the above.:loopy:

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Roadworks have been going on between junction 29 and 26 almost constantly for at least 6 years now, on one stretch or another, maybe a couple of months were free, I cant remember.

 

There aren't any between 28 and 26...and haven't been for ages...

 

Selective use of your bold there. I went on to say on one stretch or another.

Edited by Maldav

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100% certain. 4 lane running, no hard shoulder.

 

Wrong. There's a hard shoulder. They've just finished resurfacing and remarking the stretch south bound from 30 to 29a. It just needs to cones moving and that stretch is good to go.

 

---------- Post added 27-09-2015 at 16:37 ----------

 

Some fair points, but your forgetting one thing. When people are driving on the motorway and their car breaksdown/makes funny noises all common sense goes out the window. People panic and they will dive for the hardshoulder, although in this case it won't be there.

 

All there will be is a refuge around a mile apart. People will stop in the main carriageway (to check for a strange noise/fix a puncture/wonder about a light on the dashboard), and then when they do, they will get taken out by someone who hasn't seen them...

 

How do emergency services get through 4 blocked lanes to a serious collision? With a hard shoulder, heck of a lot easier.

 

How often do you see drivers ignoring the lane closure signs on gantries? Do we think they will obey them when ambulance/fire/police are trying to use that lane to get to help people???

 

So yes, risks reduced for workers on the motorway (although to do work on gantries etc it will involve closing a lane, reducing the capacity of the motorway, where as now it's done on the hard shoulder), but risks for others driving on the hard shoulder? Massively increased in my opinion.

 

Just my thoughts...

 

---------- Post added 26-09-2015 at 15:59 ----------

 

Plus have you ever come across a vehicle broken down in a live lane on the motorway??? I once saw a people carrier stopped in the roadworks near junction 30. How on earth everything avoided him I will never know, so many near misses. All at 50mph. What will happen when it is 70?

 

And to the last bit - yes I have. Last week on the M1 near Luton if memory serves - it happens more often than you think.

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It makes you wonder why hard shoulders ever existed, was there any evidence to support them?

 

Historically there was a great need - in the 1960's cars were just not designed to travel a constant high speed, breakdowns and failures were very common - things have gradually improved to the point were today it's not uncommon for a 15 year old car to be thrashing up the motorway on a daily commute.

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