Are you mad enough to march?

[unbeliever 10]

Have you any idea how like the Nazis this sounds?

What about those that cannot work and cannot contribute? What would you like to do with these encumberances? A 'drain on society'? Send them for euthanasia?

 

Nor has everyone who has worked hard been able to improve their lot. Ask anyone who has spent their lives caring 24 /7 for a disabled child, parent or partner.

 

As for your assertion that the Tories ended child labour etc, I suggest you return to your history books. Apart from a few enlightened philanthropists, the Tories have fought firmly against the working man improving his condition. We had our revolution first, in the civil war, and this has held the mob at bay and allowed some basic rights, although it was far from the last uprising. The Peterloo massacre springs to mind although there have been several others. And we came pretty close to revolution after the first world war.

 

We are a tolerant people, we are slow to anger, and have always had faith in the democratic process. That faith is disappearing. Had Osborne's working tax credits gone through, I believe there would have been blood on the streets come January. The Lords did him a favour. Let's hope he uses the time to reconsider well.

 

 

This is so extreme.

Your attempts to demonise people who dissent from your political ideology are almost insane.

How do we better the lot of our fellow people. Is Labour's way better or is the Conservative way better? It's not the least bit obvious. Neither approach is perfect.

You're creating a fantasy conflict between the righteous socialists and the evil capitalists and it's nowhere near that simple. It's this kind of zealotry which drove me away from Labour and is a big part of keeping me away.

 

When you grow up, if you want to have a debate about the relative advantages of the policies of our various political parties, we'll be here.

[Mister M 1,625]

Ultimately does anyone think having a march is actually going to change anything? I think not.

 

They do, but often indirectly. Protests often ensure that their cause is visible to those who aren't aware of 'what's going on'. They demonstrate power; the elected representatives might not always act immediately, but they take notice

[runningman1 12]

Have you any idea how like the Nazis this sounds?

What about those that cannot work and cannot contribute? What would you like to do with these encumberances? A 'drain on society'? Send them for euthanasia?

 

Nor has everyone who has worked hard been able to improve their lot. Ask anyone who has spent their lives caring 24 /7 for a disabled child, parent or partner.

 

As for your assertion that the Tories ended child labour etc, I suggest you return to your history books. Apart from a few enlightened philanthropists, the Tories have fought firmly against the working man improving his condition. We had our revolution first, in the civil war, and this has held the mob at bay and allowed some basic rights, although it was far from the last uprising. The Peterloo massacre springs to mind although there have been several others. And we came pretty close to revolution after the first world war.

 

We are a tolerant people, we are slow to anger, and have always had faith in the democratic process. That faith is disappearing. Had Osborne's working tax credits gone through, I believe there would have been blood on the streets come January. The Lords did him a favour. Let's hope he uses the time to reconsider well.

 

Ha ha ha you missed his point completely.

 

By saying that those who work have improved their lot, he obviously meant those in employment, not those caring for their relatives.

 

You set up a straw man argument by alluding to euthanasia, it is poor debating form and undermines any points you made.

 

Pre 1980's the Labour Party did indeed fight for the working man. Now they fight for the non-working man, to keep paedophiles out of prison (Jenner and the ex-Mayor of Rotherham giving a character witness to one of the vile Rotherham peadohiles). I question the morals of anyone who votes for a party that only 12 years ago instigated a war that killed so many innocent people.

 

I am no friend of the Tories, but Labour shame us all with their evil.

[James Stone 10]

Will Tory plant Jeremy Corbyn be inside or outside the building.

[Eric Arthur 10]

Have you any idea how like the Nazis this sounds?

Rubbish. Do you realise that is what the vast majority of people think and that it is YOU that is out of step.

[Squiggs 11]

Actually I do, at worst they are seen as possible assets, prepared to work to create wealth and prosperity. Those who will not work and are a liability to the community are seen as encumbrances, those who, through illness or other reason cannot work but contribute positively in other ways are respected and where necessary supported.

 

Ideally we see the community as a whole, with everyone contributing according to their ability and receiving when necessary.

 

We tend not to think of anyone as a "little person", most of us have been poor at some time and have improved our lot through entrepreneurship hard work and an element of luck, (strange that the harder you work the luckier you get).

 

I trust the above answers your question.

 

---------- Post added 03-11-2015 at 12:36 ----------

 

 

You really should study history more. It was the Tories who ended child labour, limited hours of work and brought in compulsory education.

 

Why do you think we never had a revolution in this country and extreme socialism never took hold?

So the tories are Marxists now?

 

Because the NHS and welfare state were introduced DIRECTLY because of fear of a population sick of slum living and 2 long hard wars demanded of them at a time when revolutionary sentiment was very real, and had, prior to WW2, seen international brigades travel illegally to Spain to fight not only AGAINST Franco but FOR Revolutionary Spain

 

It is now seen as "safe" to dismantle those things.

[retrogo 10]

Like an business person protects their business interests, the working person protects their terms and conditions. That of which the Business person and the unions on behalf of the workers have negotiated.

 

How can an the government demand an over 50% vote turn out when only 30blob turned out for a general election? And a government has a dam sight more powers than a union.

[WiseOwl182 10]

 

How can an the government demand an over 50% vote turn out when only 30blob turned out for a general election? And a government has a dam sight more powers than a union.

 

Except turn out in the election was 66.1%, not "30 blob".

[chem1st 10]

You can't buy fags with food.

 

You can...

 

---------- Post added 07-11-2015 at 06:35 ----------

 

Actually I do, at worst they are seen as possible assets, prepared to work to create wealth and prosperity. Those who will not work and are a liability to the community are seen as encumbrances, those who, through illness or other reason cannot work but contribute positively in other ways are respected and where necessary supported.

 

The problem is, those who cannot work, due to unemployment, are hindered, stopped from contributing, disrepected, punished and made desttitue.

 

Ideally we see the community as a whole, with everyone contributing according to their ability and receiving when necessary.

 

Agreed. Contributing inherited land so those born into serfdom can access some land for example.

 

We tend not to think of anyone as a "little person", most of us have been poor at some time and have improved our lot through entrepreneurship hard work and an element of luck, (strange that the harder you work the luckier you get).

 

It seems the post war generations had a lot of helping hands from government, and that most of that help is now denied to current and future generations.

 

Those with the greatest luck, need not work, nor their parents, grandparents etc. for them to have a good lot in life. For one can do very well out of inheritance.

[Alan Ladd 10]

Have you any idea how like the Nazis this sounds?

What about those that cannot work and cannot contribute? What would you like to do with these encumberances? A 'drain on society'? Send them for euthanasia?

 

Nor has everyone who has worked hard been able to improve their lot. Ask anyone who has spent their lives caring 24 /7 for a disabled child, parent or partner.

 

As for your assertion that the Tories ended child labour etc, I suggest you return to your history books. Apart from a few enlightened philanthropists, the Tories have fought firmly against the working man improving his condition. We had our revolution first, in the civil war, and this has held the mob at bay and allowed some basic rights, although it was far from the last uprising. The Peterloo massacre springs to mind although there have been several others. And we came pretty close to revolution after the first world war.

 

We are a tolerant people, we are slow to anger, and have always had faith in the democratic process. That faith is disappearing. Had Osborne's working tax credits gone through, I believe there would have been blood on the streets come January. The Lords did him a favour. Let's hope he uses the time to reconsider well.

 

When in doubt invoke the shadow of fascism. That is a very cheap retort. "Coming pretty close to revolution" is like being a little bit pregnant, either you are or you are not. The fact is we were nowhere near revolution.

 

If being intolerant of the workshy, the idlers and pariahs who infest our society make me, in your mind, a fascist, then you have never experienced fascism.

 

I believe in hard work, from all according to their ability, if a person has good intentions and is incapable through illness or incapacity then they should be accorded every comfort and respect.

 

Those who will not work should be made to, or their benefits ended. If that leads to homelessness so be it, their choice. If they cannot feed their children then those children should be cared for by the state.

 

We are indeed a tolerant nation, we can afford to be, ours is the 5th biggest economy in the world, we are 10th in the league of major manufacturers, This from a relatively small population compared to most of our competitors.

 

Our wealth has not been created by socialists, they have plundered it at every opportunity. It has been created by the entrepanuer, the risk taker, the business man who takes the risks and builds the wealth, pays the taxes.

 

The only political party that recognizes this is the Tory party.

[unbeliever 10]

When in doubt invoke the shadow of fascism. That is a very cheap retort. "Coming pretty close to revolution" is like being a little bit pregnant, either you are or you are not. The fact is we were nowhere near revolution.

 

If being intolerant of the workshy, the idlers and pariahs who infest our society make me, in your mind, a fascist, then you have never experienced fascism.

 

I believe in hard work, from all according to their ability, if a person has good intentions and is incapable through illness or incapacity then they should be accorded every comfort and respect.

 

Those who will not work should be made to, or their benefits ended. If that leads to homelessness so be it, their choice. If they cannot feed their children then those children should be cared for by the state.

 

We are indeed a tolerant nation, we can afford to be, ours is the 5th biggest economy in the world, we are 10th in the league of major manufacturers, This from a relatively small population compared to most of our competitors.

 

Our wealth has not been created by socialists, they have plundered it at every opportunity. It has been created by the entrepanuer, the risk taker, the business man who takes the risks and builds the wealth, pays the taxes.

 

The only political party that recognizes this is the Tory party.

 

My sympathies. It seems that capitalists, libertarians and simple pragmatists are forever doomed to be compared to National Socialists. The clue is in the name.

 

I have no idea where the insulated middle classes get the idea that if they seize money from people who work hard and then hand it out to people who refuse to work, everything will somehow get better. They even twisted a legitimate branch of economics to fit this ridiculous scheme. Keynes must be spinning in his grave.

 

Try not to take it personally. Think of them as naive children who have yet to develop the capacity to think rationally about an issue and form a reasoned conclusion.

[Alan Ladd 10]

My sympathies. It seems that capitalists, libertarians and simple pragmatists are forever doomed to be compared to National Socialists. The clue is in the name.

 

I have no idea where the insulated middle classes get the idea that if they seize money from people who work hard and then hand it out to people who refuse to work, everything will somehow get better. They even twisted a legitimate branch of economics to fit this ridiculous scheme. Keynes must be spinning in his grave.

 

Try not to take it personally. Think of them as naive children who have yet to develop the capacity to think rationally about an issue and form a reasoned conclusion.

 

Thank you for that, I do not take it personally and have no doubt that most of the persons who post on Sheffield Forum are thoroughly decent people who do play by the rules and work hard. My irritation comes from the fact that some attempt to defend the indefensible, seeing the threat to us coming from ex members of the Bullingdon club and not from the thousands who leech the system.