New minimum wage £9

[discodown 11]

You could of course also buy shares directly in the company you work for, and then you'll benefit directly from the dividends they'll pay out.

Thats a great idea. I'll use the spare money sloshing around from my pay increase...

 

...no wait

[Cyclone 10]

So you don't like that the people who DO risk capital are the ones who get the benefit... And you're not prepared to put any capital of your own at risk, but you'd like to share in the benefits...

[TJC1 10]

I am not a big fan of this, the UK needs to stay competitive globally and a 9£ minimum wage is going to have a lot of international organisations look around for cheaper alternatives (Ireland anybody?).

 

Here is an overview of current, relevant, minimum wages as they are currently (Conversion 1E is 0.71£)

 

Germany: 8,50 Euros - 6,05£ (including NI and pension contributions!)

France: 9,61 Euros - 6,83£

Ireland: 8,65 Euros - 6,15£

Italy: non (collective bargaining arrangement)

Spain: Very low monthly based (around 3£)

Netherlands: 8,70 Euros - 6,18£

Belgium: 9,12 Euros - 6,49£ (important for car manufacturing)

 

9£ brings the UK to the highest level of minimum wages in the world, in line with Australia and Luxemburg (By that time there will probably be a few more).

 

Raising the minimum wage is going to increase the black market (Think of cleaners, carers, security etc.) and simply creating a higher median is not going to help, it will just increase the mean and thus the poverty line and hey presto, more people are considered poor because they make just over the minimum wage.

 

Also, aren't all sorts of benefits linked directly to minimum wage?

 

Its ideological. The tories announced it to offset cuts in julys budget. They are removing in work benefits.

Its also a trade for tax cuts to big business.

 

It might not work in practice. Private business have to pick up the slack for it to be effective.

 

It could possibly lead to greater unemployment. Who knows?

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2015 at 15:33 ----------

 

I've no problem with the minimum increasing, as long as everyone else's increases proportionally. I spent time and effort to get the qualifications and experience I have, so I didn't have to do a minimum wage job. Raising that but not matching everyone else's just devalues all that hard work

 

A disproportionate rise for you will not happen im afraid

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2015 at 15:36 ----------

 

So you don't like that the people who DO risk capital are the ones who get the benefit... And you're not prepared to put any capital of your own at risk, but you'd like to share in the benefits...

 

Its a trade off for business tax cuts.

Or do you think businesses would agree to this without some sort of return?

[discodown 11]

So you don't like that the people who DO risk capital are the ones who get the benefit... And you're not prepared to put any capital of your own at risk, but you'd like to share in the benefits...

Nope. Never said any of that.

 

Fair pay for the work I do and have done is what I saying. Its perfectly simple

[TJC1 10]

I dont think the rise is enough.

Its not the living wage so why call it that?

[Cyclone 10]

Its a trade off for business tax cuts.

Or do you think businesses would agree to this without some sort of return?

 

Do you think that they have any option?

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2015 at 15:46 ----------

 

Nope. Never said any of that.

 

Fair pay for the work I do and have done is what I saying. Its perfectly simple

 

Indeed. Of course "fair" is a difficult to pin down value.

[TJC1 10]

Do you think that they have an option?

 

Of course osborne etc consulted with big business. Its done behind closed doors.

Or do you think he shuts his eyes makes a cut or increase and hopes for the best?

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2015 at 15:51 ----------

 

 

Indeed. Of course "fair" is a difficult to pin down value.

 

Its not a living wage. We know that.

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2015 at 15:52 ----------

 

100 business leaders publicly backed the conservatives in an open letter in the right wing press.

Raise in min wage for tax cuts. Businesses have done well out if this, so should workers.

[Cyclone 10]

You implied that businesses had some power to reject it. Consultation doesn't give them that power.

 

I'm pretty sure he shuts his eyes when he makes a cut. And his sense of basic human decency and empathy.

 

The living wage is nonsense. Have you seen how it was calculated.

[TJC1 10]

You implied that businesses had some power to reject it. Consultation doesn't give them that power.

 

I'm pretty sure he shuts his eyes when he makes a cut. And his sense of basic human decency and empathy.

 

The living wage is nonsense. Have you seen how it was calculated.

 

Its engineered. Businesses backed the conservatives in exchange for benefits.

 

Why would they reject it? Its a good deal.

 

---------- Post added 13-08-2015 at 16:00 ----------

 

The living wage is higher than the proposal.

Why call the plan a living wage? Its just a higher min wage.

[discodown 11]

Indeed. Of course "fair" is a difficult to pin down value.

Absolutely. Its in my contract I should have a wage review every year and a performance related pay rise if I warrant it.

 

There hasn't been such a review for the last four years for me and many others but there has been things like massive staff cuts, increase in work, emails as described above, no inestment in IT, no formal training, no promotions, removal of most staff perks and priviliges and other things which have made it a much more difficult place to work but for no discernible benefit.

 

So, I say to you - is it unreasonable to want what is owed to you when you uphold your part of the bargain and more?

 

Big companies will happily do nothing for staff unless forced to. The worst times are passed, if there is £1.3bn extra business, and the share price is up and the overall business is doing better than ever giving us what we are supposed to have anyway isn't going to break the company coffers

[TJC1 10]

I think they do have power, they can withdraw that support. It was a factor in cons winning election.

[sgtkate 10]

I'm no socialist but it seems to me that when workers argue about crumbs and big companies have pretty much the whole cake things are fundamentally wrong.

 

The company I work for sent out their half yearly statement as an email recently, everything fabulous £1.3bn extra business, share price never been stronger etc etc. But half the people where I work - including me - haven't had a pay review for the 4th or 5th year running. If things are so good where's my fair share?

 

I don't need the weatherman to tell me when its raining. Time to get out. Its pure greed and exploitation and its not acceptable. Wage increases aren't a necessary evil they are whats owed for fair work and to decent workers and the fact the government has to step in and enforce it on big companies speaks volumes

 

Now, I am a nailed on socialist, but even I don't necessarily agree with the increased minimum wage...I'd much rather companies were part owned by employees in the John Lewis style. The problem with increasing wages when a company is doing well is that if it's sales fall the next year they now have an unsustainable wage bill. If the employees took a cut of the profits like a shareholder but had slightly lower wages it would protect that business from a sudden fall in profits, but also encourage workers to make that company profitable as it would DIRECTLY benefit them.

 

However, I would like to see minimum wage rise above inflation to a point where anyone working 30 hours a week + does not need tax credits to get them to an agreed* 'living wage'. If smaller businesses need tax breaks or grants to help them get over the wage shock that might bring then that's absolutely fine. Mutual benefit.