The politicians of today are an insult to you and me

[MikeFrank 10]

Politics is destined to lurch further to the right. The Left have become unelectable. We need PR to keep things in the centre. We won't get it though.

[unbeliever 10]

You know as well as I do that if the party is in any danger of losing a vote, the whips come out in force. And it's a brave politician who can stand up to that, and still live to tell the tale..

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 16:33 ----------

 

 

Really? 4 million votes = 1 Ukip MP, (and you say nothing is wrong with the electoral system?)

 

I voted for AV. We lost. The people have spoken. Vox populi box dei.

 

As I said, the worst thing the whips can do is deselect. That would probably sound like a hollow threat if there were more than a few as such rebels have more power than ever this time with the majority being so small. Don't forget that if a few rebels decide not to support the government on a confidence vote, they're out.

 

When John Major was operating on a majority not much smaller than this in the mid '90s there was plenty of rebellion and major decisions were changed in order to accommodate just a few MPs.

Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever

[Anna B 1,414]

As a complete neutral and an observer:

I personally think the end of the Labour party is near.

( evidence: where is Gordon Brown? Ed? His brother? TB - No one is even bothered to ask … )

 

 

Again, as a complete neutral and an observer, can a political party survive when a fairly different and fresh leadership candidate get slaughtered by …., not the Conservatives … but by those who thought and felt they built a solid self-serving empire but discovered a gentle breeze took it away in less than 3 minutes?

 

To me it is a clear indication that the party has no foundation to stand on

That was my neutral point of view

 

The world has changed since the economic crash of 2008. The Labour party hasn't moved with it.

 

It had only recently (in relative terms) gone from a very left wing Labour party to 'New Labour' when Tony Blair announced 'we're all middle class now.' It had taken a huge struggle to get there, after years of fighting marxism in the party, to become electable. It's not surprising that they're scared witless that it will happen again if they go back to the old ways.

 

However, are we all middle class since the crash? The economy changed overnight, austerity hit and impoverished some people in a way not seen since the thirties, they certainly don't feel middle class anymore. And an awful lot has come to light with regards to big corporations, croneyism, corruption, expenses and tax etc. thanks to the internet, investigative journalism and the work of people like Occupy. Politicians are no longer seen as the upholders of all that's right and proper.

 

The working class needs a champion again. The electorate needs someone who represents their needs and feelings. Is Jeremy Corbyn that champion? Well he could be. He's certainly more left wing than Tony Blair and defends the underdog more, but is he a Marxist? I doubt it, but I will be investigating.

 

Politicians of all parties have been discredited. Corbyn now probably represents the middle ground and ordinary working people more than Tony multi-millionaire Blair and the rest of the well heeled Oxbridge Labour shadow cabinet, and certainly more than anyone in the Tory party. He also seems an honest, decent sort of man, with some old fashioned integrity.

 

Will he be able to steer a steady course between big business, enterprise, jobs, unions and the needs of the people of this country? I hope so, but as yet he is untested. It depends how he handles the leadership and the party during his time in opposition. If he fails you can be sure he will be out on his ear.

 

People have been agitating for political change since the world turned on its head in 2008. It's a big ask. I personally think he should probably be given a chance to try.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Anna B

[unbeliever 10]

The world has changed since the economic crash of 2008. The Labour party hasn't moved with it.

 

It had only recently (in relative terms) gone from a very left wing Labour party to 'New Labour' when Tony Blair announced 'we're all middle class now.' It had taken a huge struggle to get there, after years of fighting marxism in the party, to become electable. It's not surprising that they're scared witless that it will happen again if they go back to the old ways.

 

Quite so.

 

However, are we all middle class since the crash? The economy changed overnight, austerity hit and impoverished some people in a way not seen since the thirties, they certainly don't feel middle class anymore. And an awful lot has come to light with regards to big corporations, croneyism, corruption, expenses and tax etc. thanks to the internet, investigative journalism and the work of people like Occupy. Politicians are no longer seen as the upholders of all that's right and proper.

 

The working class needs a champion again. The electorate needs someone who represents their needs and feelings. Is Jeremy Corbyn that champion? Well he could be. He's certainly more left wing than Tony Blair and defends the underdog more, but is he a Marxist? I doubt it, but I will be investigating.

 

Politicians of all parties have been discredited. Corbyn now probably represents the middle ground and ordinary working people more than Tony multi-millionaire Blair and the rest of the well heeled Oxbridge Labour shadow cabinet, and certainly more than anyone in the Tory party. He also seems an honest, decent sort of man, with some old fashioned integrity.

 

Will he be able to steer a steady course between big business, enterprise, jobs, unions and the needs of the people of this country? I hope so, but as yet he is untested. It depends how he handles the leadership and the party during his time in opposition. If he fails you can be sure he will be out on his ear.

 

People have been agitating for political change since the world turned on its head in 2008. It's a big ask. I personally think he should probably be given a chance to try.

 

I presume this is the modern socialist definition of the word austerity, which seems to mean "not increasing public spending as fast as we would like".

As opposed to the proper meaning of the word which would be "making everybody poorer" in Labour's case by crashing the economy.

 

I suppose you might be right. Maybe Labour did crash the economy on purpose so that there would be more poor people dependent on the state to survive. It's far more likely that they're just a bunch of muppets.

Lurching further toward statism is just going to seal their doom though.

 

Corbyn does seem like a decent man, but he's pushing a failed ideology and there are still enough people around who remember the '70s.

If you really want to rescue the party, get the other Milliband back. Really should have been him the last time as that's who the party voted for. Like him or not (and I don't) he's competent and convincing.

Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever

[Vague_Boy 10]

I do however believe that we do need politicians, but politicians who show respect to our intelligence.

 

Without wishing to seem cynical, I think modern politician already give the general public's intelligence pretty much all the consideration it deserves.

 

Individually people are smart, collectively they're as thick as pig****.

[Eric Arthur 10]

Corbyn has principles. Vote for him.

 

Wouldn't some kind of ointment be more use?

[Ela James 10]

 

Individually people are smart, collectively they're as thick as pig****.

 

Look at Greece’s last election …, Spain …, and now the wave hitting the Labour party in UK …., all indications point towards one thing: People are waking up … slowly but waking up … and getting smarter and more difficult to convince and persuade

Waking up because they found out that they had been taken for a ride for a long long time ( … we still are to some extent … eg: giving a bank boss £2m bonus while the bank is still in intensive care supported by public money )

…………… I look at it this way: 20 years ago no one would have thought it possible the USA electing a black man for president …, not any man but a very smart and honest one - someone who isn’t just black, but had been against Iraq war before it started, a stand very risky to take but the public knew better than, and successfully resisted, the expert ( media & co = big money )

…………….. Another example: who would have thought there would be a day where you could pick in London the Evening Standard newspaper for free … and the paper is still in business!

…………. who would have thought groups of protestors in Washington DC and New York city calling themselves the Tahrir Square Revolutionists?

……… I am not English and feel able to see things without colours and/ or spices … , I love this country that I consider my true home because of one thing: the decency of the British people, .. unlike any other, the British are simply unique … have always been!

The opposite can be said about the ruling class …. often I am just shocked and speechless!

( I often ask myself: what makes and how come a wonderful people choosing someone not worthy of even cleaning my own shoes? - I am originally from Africa .

[Eric Arthur 10]

How's waking up working out for them in Greece and Spain?

[Ela James 10]

Waking up = seeing reality , opposite to dreaming

[unbeliever 10]

Waking up = seeing reality , opposite to dreaming

 

If waking up means embracing the same socialist nonsense that has failed us so many times in the past, I'll stay asleep thanks.

 

It's the same old story when those ignorant of history and lacking common sense lock on to socialism:

Capitalism isn't perfect.

Something must be done.

This is something.

Therefore we must do it.

 

Obama's a good guy, but then so is McCain. McCain would have run the country far better. Should have chosen somebody better as a running mate. Anybody would have done. A warm turd would have been a better choice.

Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever

[Eric Arthur 10]

Waking up = seeing reality , opposite to dreaming

 

How's it working out, this wide awake reality?

[Ela James 10]

If waking up means embracing the same socialist nonsense that has failed us so many times in the past, I'll stay asleep thanks.

 

It's the same old story when those ignorant of history and lacking common sense lock on to socialism:

Capitalism isn't perfect.

Something must be done.

This is something.

Therefore we must do it.

 

Obama's a good guy, but then so is McCain. McCain would have run the country far better. Should have chosen somebody better as a running mate. Anybody would have done. A warm turd would have been a better choice.

 

Capitalism ...... socialism .....etc-ism ... pick and choose anything you like, ....

ultimately: 1 + 1 = 2

 

Soon when the general public become sharper and more focused they would vote for a successful manager … someone who can manage things and make them better with limited resources

( example: 2 people, each started with £10k. A month later one is left with £11, the other £12 … simple, no? ) that is management and success.

Is he capitalist? socialist? … who cares?

Principles and ideals do nothing to the starving …. they do not solve a thing … that debate is old and no longer valid … today people talk about food banks … young uni girls doing escort work making £ £ …. and … and ….

capitalist .. or … socialist ??

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 20:59 ----------

 

How's it working out, this wide awake reality?

 

In any issue with any problem .. be it personal .. political .. running a country …. the first thing that should be done: Identifying the problem … understanding it … ,

for that to happen one needs to be awake