The politicians of today are an insult to you and me

[TJC1 10]

Don't any of the other candidates?

 

Im sure they do. Some.

[RonJeremy 10]

Change of heart, or cynical ploy that devalues the democratic process Ron?

 

Be careful what you wish for, you may inadvertently put in place the best leader this country has seen in years.

 

cynical ploy that devalues the democratic process.

 

We need to avoid another labour disaster at all costs. The economically illiterate Corbin is this county's best chance of another Tory government. Oh and the boundary changes too.

[unbeliever 10]

cynical ploy that devalues the democratic process.

 

We need to avoid another labour disaster at all costs. The economically illiterate Corbin is this county's best chance of another Tory government. Oh and the boundary changes too.

 

I don't think you can devalue the democratic process within the Labour party since it isn't democratic anyway.

If it was then at the last leadership election, the candidate with the most votes from party members would have been selected as leader.

Not what happened.

[Anna B 1,414]

Can I start by saying: this topic is not in support of any political party, or against a particular one.

It is written with as much neutrality as possible … so please keep your personal ideology and support on one side …, and try and see why I consider the politicians of today behave in a way that doesn’t make sense, counter-productive, …. and soon they will be history.

 

I do however believe that we do need politicians, but politicians who show respect to our intelligence.

 

Look at this and you will understand my point: please try and follow the logic

1 - The other day we heard Tony Blair publicly saying that he was not in favour of selecting Jeremy Corbyn as leader to the Labour Party.

Fine, so far so good, TB is free to say what he likes

2 - TB’s ex-right hand man, Alastair Campbell, recently said, publicly, Choose anyone but Jeremy Corbyn for Labour leader.

Fine, so far so good, everyone is free to say what they like, I have no problem with that!

 

But because they both expressed their feelings not privately, but publicly, that means they are trying to have an influence on a wider scale.

Again, that is also fine since everyone can do acceptable things publicly and try and influence whoever they wish .. I even say to them good luck!

 

But when you see a piece on the BBC titled: Why is Tony Blair so unpopular? , …., well, things start not making sense ….., well,

Look at it this way: if someone is not only (( unpopular )), but actually (( soooo unpopular )), his attack on selecting Jeremy Corbyn would most likely encourage more people to select the very one he is actually against.

Isn’t he clever?

…

I am sorry to say it is a big insult to my little brain … and feel I probably deserved it

 

Are the politicians of today an insult to you and me? I should say so!

Do we deserve it? Unreservedly not. We deserve far better.

 

The expenses scandal

The tacit support of criminal bankers

Failure to honour promises

Failure to collect tax from mega corporations.

Allowing criminal acts of the rich to go unpunished.

Lying on a daily basis

Corruption on a daily basis

The Westminster paedophile ring...

 

None of the above have been satisfactorily been dealt with. They evade the law on a daily basis. The list goes on and on, and is by no means exhaustive.

Nor is it 'normal,'

Nor has it 'always gone on' (not to the extent it does today anyway)

 

When a decent honest man, who does none of the above, appears and puts himself forward for office, the final nail in the coffin is the cynical act of voting for a man they detest, whose values they despise, purely in the hope that he will bring down the Labour party. That says it all really. Love or hate Jeremy Corbyn, to do such a thing shows total contempt for the electorate and a total disregard for the true democratic process.

 

If in the future this country erupts in violence and anarchy they will have been the cause.

They should be ashamed. Very ashamed.

Edited August 11, 2015 by Anna B

[RonJeremy 10]

Are the politicians of today an insult to you and me?

 

I should say so.

 

The expenses scandal

The tacit support of criminal bankers

Failure to honour promises

Failure to collect tax from mega corporations.

Allowing criminal acts of the rich to go unpunished.

Lying on a daily basis

Corruption on a daily basis

The Westminster paedophile ring...

 

None of the above have been satisfactorily been dealt with. They evade the law on a daily basis. The list goes on and on, and is by no means exhaustive.

Nor is it 'normal,'

Nor has it 'always gone on' (not to the extent it does today anyway)

 

When a decent honest man, who is does none of the above, appears and puts himself forward for office, the final nail in the coffin is the cynical disregard for the true democratic process, of voting for a man they detest, whose values they despise, purely in the hope that he will bring down the Labour party.

 

If in the future this country erupts in violence and anarchy they will have been the cause.

They should be ashamed. Very ashamed.

 

So... if you stood for election and were returned, would you be immediately culpable for all prior indiscretions? What a load of pious garbage.

[Ela James 10]

Neither Blair nor Campbell are a politician of today. Further, Campbell has never been a politician.

 

I wasn’t expecting what you have said even though I am certain you understood the substance of the topic

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:15 ----------

 

Don't we get the politicians we deserve ?

 

And since we haven't got angels, we can attach ourselves to nothing greater ...... In a democracy, the people get the government they deserve

Alexis de Tocqueville

 

of course we do ... I think we need to change the way we decide and select ... otherwise it will remain the same

I am not blaming no one !!! ... but it is clearly against simple logic what TB said

( again please, I am no enemy of Labour, nor a supporter of any ) ..

Name

& signed: a simple minded man

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:19 ----------

 

I'd say Alistair was definitely a politician, unelected technically, politician none the less.

 

SOME of the politicians we have are without a doubt an insult. Some of them are two faced underhanded, hypocritical, devious, career minded, selfish, self serving, thieving, egotistical..etc

 

I do believe we do need politicians, but politicians who show respect to our intelligence.

If you know of an alternative please provide

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:23 ----------

 

Oh my! What an insightful point you make.

 

The character flaws and machinations of the worst kind of politicians generally aren't touted on their campaign trails.

 

I have to apologise and say: I honestly do not understand what you are saying.

If you care, please try using more direct approach to the message .. with thanks!

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:40 ----------

 

Anna B (( Are the politicians of today an insult to you and me? I should say so! Do we deserve it? Unreservedly not. We deserve far better.))

 

Explain this to me please: how do you say you deserve someone/ something better than the one that has been voted in and their actions?

It is our choice … you get what you pay for, no?

 

 

(( When a decent honest man, who does none of the above, appears and puts himself forward for office, the final nail in the coffin is the cynical act of voting for a man they detest, whose values they despise, purely in the hope that he will bring down the Labour party.))

If the system is flawed - if the tank is leaking - why didn’t they fix it?

Frankly if the above is true then I am now less convinced that they are capable of running the country … if they could not save their own party, who expects them to save the country?

[Anna B 1,414]

I wasn’t expecting what you have said even though I am certain you understood the substance of the topic

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:15 ----------

 

 

of course we do ... I think we need to change the way we decide and select ... otherwise it will remain the same

I am not blaming no one !!! ... but it is clearly against simple logic what TB said

( again please, I am no enemy of Labour, nor a supporter of any ) ..

Name

& signed: a simple minded man

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:19 ----------

 

 

I do believe we do need politicians, but politicians who show respect to our intelligence.

If you know of an alternative please provide

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:23 ----------

 

 

I have to apologise and say: I honestly do not understand what you are saying.

If you care, please try using more direct approach to the message .. with thanks!

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 14:40 ----------

 

Anna B (( Are the politicians of today an insult to you and me? I should say so! Do we deserve it? Unreservedly not. We deserve far better.))

 

Explain this to me please: how do you say you deserve someone/ something better than the one that has been voted in and their actions?

It is our choice … you get what you pay for, no?

 

(( When a decent honest man, who does none of the above, appears and puts himself forward for office, the final nail in the coffin is the cynical act of voting for a man they detest, whose values they despise, purely in the hope that he will bring down the Labour party.))

If the system is flawed - if the tank is leaking - why didn’t they fix it?

Frankly if the above is true then I am now less convinced that they are capable of running the country … if they could not save their own party, who expects them to save the country?

 

It is only our choice up to a point. The people we are allowed to vote for are already pre-selected by the party and put on a short list. In that way they can control the 'message.' Anyone who doesn't share the same points of view will never even get on the short list, much less be elected. That's why things don't change.

 

Same with cabinet members. This is where the real power for change is. But they are chosen by the prime minister, and he will only select 'like minded' people. So things don't change.

 

Voting in parliament is generally controlled by the whips, who insist their MPs vote with the party not against it, so is not a free vote. MPs do not represent the views of their electorate, they represent the views of their party. Free votes do occur from time to time when the whips are withdrawn, but vote against the party and you will be seen as a rebel, and can kiss goodbye to career progression and high office. So things don't change.

 

Jeremy Corbyn is a fluke. Only selected by Labour onto the leadership contenders bench to make up the numbers, and there specifically to fail.

That's why they are now in shock and panicking like mad. He has struck a chord with the voters and says what the electorate are saying. He has not been groomed by the PR people into conformity, and they have no control. He is therefore dangerous. He might win the leadership, and he might change things - and they don't like it one bit...

Edited August 11, 2015 by Anna B

[unbeliever 10]

It is only our choice up to a point. The people we are allowed to vote for are already pre-selected by the party and put on a short list. In that way they can control the 'message.' Anyone who doesn't share the same points of view will never even get on the short list, much less be elected. That's why things don't change.

 

Same with cabinet members. This is where the real power for change is. But they are chosen by the prime minister, and he will only select 'like minded' people. So things don't change.

 

Voting in parliament is generally controlled by the whips, who insist their MPs vote with the party not against it, so is not a free vote. free votes do occur sometimes, but vote against the party and you will be seen as a rebel, and can kiss goodbye to career progression and high office. So things don't change.

 

Jeremy Corbyn is a fluke. Only selected by Labour onto the leadership contenders bench to make up the numbers, and there to fail.

That's why they are now in shock and panicking like mad. He has struck a chord with the voters and says what the electorate are saying. He has not been groomed by the PR people into conformity, and they have no control. He is therefore dangerous. He might change things - and they don't like it...

 

The worst thing the whips can do to an MP is have them de-selected at the next election. They are free to vote as they wish unless they're chicken.

 

It's up to the individual parties to improve the means by which they select candidates. Does Corbyn have anything to say on the matter?

Edited August 11, 2015 by unbeliever

[RonJeremy 10]

Well UKIP and the greens tried to change things at the last election - not much of a party machine in either of those parties - but the public didn't seem to want that in the constituencies.

[Anna B 1,414]

The worst thing the whips can do to an MP is have them de-selected at the next election. They are free to vote as they wish unless they're chicken.

 

It's up to the individual parties to improve the means by which they select candidates. Does Corbyn have anything to say on the matter?

 

You know as well as I do that if the party is in any danger of losing a vote, the whips come out in force. And it's a brave politician who can stand up to that, and still live to tell the tale..

 

---------- Post added 11-08-2015 at 16:33 ----------

 

Well UKIP and the greens tried to change things at the last election - not much of a party machine in either of those parties - but the public didn't seem to want that in the constituencies.

 

Really? 4 million votes = 1 Ukip MP, (and you say nothing is wrong with the electoral system?)

[Ela James 10]

As a complete neutral and an observer:

I personally think the end of the Labour party is near.

( evidence: where is Gordon Brown? Ed? His brother? TB - No one is even bothered to ask … )

 

 

Again, as a complete neutral and an observer, can a political party survive when a fairly different and fresh leadership candidate get slaughtered by …., not the Conservatives … but by those who thought and felt they built a solid self-serving empire but discovered a gentle breeze took it away in less than 3 minutes?

 

To me it is a clear indication that the party has no foundation to stand on

That was my neutral point of view

Edited August 11, 2015 by Ela James

[TJC1 10]

As a complete neutral and an observer:

I personally think the end of the Labour party is near.

( evidence: where is Gordon Brown? Ed? His brother? TB - No one is even bothered to ask … )

 

 

Again, as a complete neutral and an observer, can a political party survive when a fairly different and fresh leadership candidate get slaughtered by …., not the Conservatives … but by those who thought and felt they built a solid self-serving empire but discovered a gentle breeze took it away in less than 3 minutes?

 

To me it is a clear indication that the party has no foundation to stand on

That was my neutral point of view

 

As a neutral I think labour are going to be worth voting for again. Corbynmania is on the rise, good policies and with cameron stepping down its a good time to get into power.