[RELEASED] Windows 10 - NEW THREAD

[AlexAtkin 10]

Everything is still in control panel that was there, there's just an alternative in PC Settings...

 

or, at least, for control panel items I have needed up to now....

 

The thing that tripped me up was moving display settings into the Settings section, but if you want to change the display DRIVER, its still where it used to be. You can't to get one from the other.

 

---------- Post added 16-09-2015 at 18:30 ----------

 

Some of that is very subjective and the average PC user at home would not see any difference. I keep hearing the term superior but no one can explain in what way.

 

Is it quicker? Has anyone actually benchmarked it compared to win7? When I tried it it was actually slower to boot and programs weren't any quicker and that was with a modern SSD. I also cant see any statistics on-line comparing the features or the advantages of 7 to 10 either.

 

So far nothing has been said that make it much better than Win7. Going from 98 to XP was a big step, going from XP to 7 was a big step but from 7 to 10 seems minor. Maybe that's why this upgrade was free.

 

Mine was slower to boot the first few times and then was much quicker. With an SSD though, boot times are always negligible. People used to tell me how much faster 8 booted than 7 and I didn't see it due to having an SSD in my 7 machine.

 

When I say speed I'm talking about things like clicking on the start button, launching applications, switching applications, this all seems much faster to me on both the machines I upgraded. I believe Microsoft themselves said 10 was mostly about optimisation, making everything more efficient under-the-hood.

 

Part of the speed is also that it uses less RAM than 8 which in turn used less RAM than 7 I believe. On my under-powered tablet that means being able to have twice as much stuff open before it gets dragged down by swapping on the eMMC. With a real SSD that is probably something you won't notice.

 

If you are asking the question "why should I upgrade if 7 is fine" rather than "is there any disadvantage to upgrading to 10", then you are looking at it wrong.

 

Fact is, you will have to upgrade eventually or risk being on a insecure OS and missing out on newer software. If you don't actually lose anything from upgrading, why would you not do?

 

I am primarily a Linux user and by being so I am used to all bits of the OS being upgraded on a regular basis. Things can always be improved, there are always bugs, and the sooner you upgrade the quicker those bugs are fixed. You might not realise they are there, but its better if they are resolved now rather than later.

 

People need to realise that OS upgrades will likely affect developers more than end users. So while you might not see the improvements, the sooner everyone upgrades, the sooner developers can actually make use of those improvements and future software will benefit.

 

People holding back until they "see improvements" actually delay those improvements happening. This is why Microsoft made it a free upgrade in the first place, as it drastically held back game improvements last time due to developers having to make sure a huge chunk of their market are supported on their old versions of Windows. But this is by no means exclusive only to games.

 

Just one example, you get a far superior version of Netflix on Windows 10 (though granted also on than on Windows 7.

Edited September 16, 2015 by AlexAtkin

[DnAuK 10]

I've been playing around with Windows 10 since the developer stage. Before that I was on Windows 7 as I really didn;t like Windows 8 (or 8.1) even thoughn it ran faster than 7. 7 just became too bloated, but it was a good system. 10 seems to have taken the best bits of it and streamlined it with the best bits of 8.1. I think it's a joy to use. Once you get used to it.

[AlexAtkin 10]

I've been playing around with Windows 10 since the developer stage. Before that I was on Windows 7 as I really didn;t like Windows 8 (or 8.1) even thoughn it ran faster than 7. 7 just became too bloated, but it was a good system. 10 seems to have taken the best bits of it and streamlined it with the best bits of 8.1. I think it's a joy to use. Once you get used to it.

 

Precisely my point.

 

Some people are not giving it a chance and will either hold back developers by clinging on to Windows 7, or at least rip themselves off when in a years time they realise they NEED Windows 10 for the latest software and have to pay for it.

 

I can understand people waiting a while to update, on the assumption things will stabalise more over the coming months.

 

But what I cannot understand are people who would upgrade and then downgrade again because a minor change has meant they have to learn a slightly different way of doing things.

 

Or to not upgrade at all on the principle that what they have right now is "good enough". Which is a misnomer as they simply do not understand in what ways its NOT good enough, such as the efficiency of the back-end, security issues or things that they will learn are better over time but will not immediately be obvious.

[esme 10]

I've reverted from windows 10 for a couple of reasons

 

One reason is the bloatware, it can be removed fairly easily if you know what to do, but I shouldn't have to remove it at all, it shouldn't be there certainly not Cortana & xBox, these could be optional downloads if people want them, they aren't necessary for the upgrade though and for a novice they are difficult to shift.

 

Another reason is the killswitch, I know it's only supposed to work on rogue software installed from the windows store, but that begs the question of why wasn't the software verified when it was added to the store rather than after it was installed on a users machine wasting their time, bandwidth and disk space. Further this is my machine, it is a tool, it does what I want, when I want, as often as I want & I will not tolerate someone in Redmond having the ability to disable software on my machine.

 

And another reason is the sheer volume of data that Win10 sends back to Microsoft. Now even if you get rid of the bloatware & turn all the privacy options on Win10 still sends encrypted information along with your machine ID & several other bits of information that can identify you back to Microsoft, further it bypasses the hosts file so you can't dump this information somewhere harmless without altering settings on your router, again not something the novice knows how to do.

 

And Microsoft are trying to roll out this data slurp to Windows 7 & 8 as well, if you have automatic updates turned on you probably already have these installed.

 

See http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/09/01/microsoft_backports_data_slurp_to_windows_78_via_patches/ for more information

 

Now it's very generous of Microsoft to give us a free operating system and when I installed it it did work very well, once I got rid of bloatware. And I realise they need to recoup their investment somehow, but they need to recognise that this machine is mine, I use it to make a living, I'd rather pay for an operating system that I can trust not to have bloatware, report what I'm doing offsite and give some remote person the ability to kill software on my machine than use their free offering.

 

So I think this will be my last version of Windows, unless there is a major shift in attitude at Redmond, and I'll be migrating to some flavour of Unix instead

Edited September 18, 2015 by esme

[Obelix 11]

Precisely my point.

 

Some people are not giving it a chance and will either hold back developers by clinging on to Windows 7, or at least rip themselves off when in a years time they realise they NEED Windows 10 for the latest software and have to pay for it.

 

I can understand people waiting a while to update, on the assumption things will stabalise more over the coming months.

 

But what I cannot understand are people who would upgrade and then downgrade again because a minor change has meant they have to learn a slightly different way of doing things.

 

Or to not upgrade at all on the principle that what they have right now is "good enough". Which is a misnomer as they simply do not understand in what ways its NOT good enough, such as the efficiency of the back-end, security issues or things that they will learn are better over time but will not immediately be obvious.

 

Because Microsoft sucks up everything you do it seems on the box. That's good enough reason for a lot of people.

 

I've put a lot of work moving my applications off of Win 7 though. They all now run fine on Linux where I control precisely what MY computer does - not what Microsoft wants it to do. If there is an update - it'll be when I choose and have tested it. It'll be under my control. It won't send my usage data to Redmond. IT will do what I tell it to, and no one else.

[AlexAtkin 10]

Bloatware is software that is pre-installed on your PC and runs regardless of if you want it or not, eating resources.

 

By definition neither Cortana or Xbox are bloatware, as they only run if you actually choose to use them.

 

By your definition, accessibility is Bloatware, because I will never need to use it. Having a few apps pre-installed as part of the OS is nothing new, I just don't understand why people are getting all full of themselves about it.

 

They do not reduce the performance of the OS, they take next to no space, so why does it matter?

 

The Killswitch as you point out only applies to stuff installed from Windows Store.

 

As for reporting back to Microsoft, that is a tricky one but I don't think its new. Every OS does this now and I wouldn't be so sure that Windows 7 doesn't either.

[apelike 10]

Further this is my machine, it is a tool, it does what I want, when I want, as often as I want & I will not tolerate someone in Redmond having the ability to disable software on my machine.

 

And another reason is the sheer volume of data that Win10 sends back to Microsoft. Now even if you get rid of the bloatware & turn all the privacy options on Win10 still sends encrypted information along with your machine ID & several other bits of information that can identify you back to Microsoft, further it bypasses the hosts file so you can't dump this information somewhere harmless without altering settings on your router, again not something the novice knows how to do.

 

 

I couldn't agree more to any of that. Its one of the reasons I downgraded, and I didn't downgrade just because it did things slightly different either. With successive versions of Window's Microsoft have increasingly decided that PC users are idiots and they know what is best for them. They also try and force their software on them regardless. Microsoft got themselves into trouble in Win 7 for trying to make people think that IE was the only one they were then forced into giving people the choice of other browsers. IE is also integrated into the OS and cant be removed. They are now doing the same with EDGE so I expect another investigation and potential lawsuit from the EU over that.

 

I like to tweak the system with Ultimate windows tweaker and as I am the sole user like turn off lots of things I just don't want.

 

Some things I like to alter.

Disable aero snap

Disable aero shake

Disable highlighting newly installed programs

Disable balloon tips

Change UAC settings

Auto end non responding applications

Disable tablet PC input services

Disable windows media centre

Disable windows defender

Remove CD burn feature

Disable mobility centre

Disable windows sidebar

Disable error reporting

Remove arrows from short-cuts

Remove short-cut suffix for new short-cuts

Disable hibernation

Change the temp folder location from users to C:

 

As far as reporting home the first thing 10 did on the first boot was to disable Zone alarm. I then had to get and install a new compatible version which meant by that time windows had already phoned home. After running it for a day I looked at the zone alarm logs and saw that Microsoft had attempted on over a dozen occasions to send data back to numerous different Microsoft servers. That was something 7 did not do and if it tried Zone Alarm stopped it.

 

The security on 10 can also be questioned as updates are already available which shows its probably just as vulnerable as 7 ever was and being new could possibly be worse, and again regular updates will be needed.

 

Trying to find out in what ways win 7 is NOT good enough and why win 10 is superior and necessary is difficult and nobody has been able to convince me and many others that it is. Talking of back-end improvement without giving detail is as I said before just subjective as no one knows what Microsoft have done.

[swarfendor437 14]

As for reporting back to Microsoft, that is a tricky one but I don't think its new. Every OS does this now and I wouldn't be so sure that Windows 7 doesn't either.

 

Esme has already pointed it out that it does (and I did too here:

 

http://www.sheffieldforum.co.uk/showthread.php?t=1422300

 

---------- Post added 19-09-2015 at 01:20 ----------

 

Just one example, you get a far superior version of Netflix on Windows 10 (though granted also on than on Windows 7.

 

It is also possible to get shiny new Netflix on Ubuntu and its forks too!

 

And MakuluLinux comes with PopCorn Time too by default!

 

---------- Post added 19-09-2015 at 01:21 ----------

 

Or just right click the start button, and click Control panel....

 

Yes, but once on the task bar it is one left-click!

 

---------- Post added 19-09-2015 at 01:24 ----------

 

Some people are not giving it a chance and will either hold back developers by clinging on to Windows 7, or at least rip themselves off when in a years time they realise they NEED Windows 10 for the latest software and have to pay for it.

 

What do I need Windows for? Some games that will only run on Windows and Serif Web Plus - when 7 expires all I will need to do is disable network and play off-line (personal preference), and save web pages as html and upload to host using Filezilla on Linux.

[AlexAtkin 10]

To be fair, I didn't mean Microsoft adding the telemetry to 7 but that even before that can we be sure how much 7 is reporting? It has to report a certain amount for Windows Activation and we know iOS and Android reports back. I just don't see the big issue with it unless its sending sensitive data. Then again, I will possibly block it at the router anyway simply because I can.

 

Netflix on Linux (Chrome) is the web version (720p stereo), not fully featured like the Windows app (1080p 5.1).

 

I certainly wouldn't argue in favour of Windows over Linux, I'm a 99% Linux user and can only tolerate Windows by being able to SSH or VNC into my Linux server. But I still find Windows 10 better than Windows 7 or 8.1 (especially 8.1).

 

I prefer to game on console as its just less hassle than PC, Windows or Linux. That doesn't stop me having 397 games in my Steam library though (103 on Linux, but many others will run on WINE). But as I tend to be doing things in the browser I find it inconvenient to do that while gaming on the same PC, thus consoles.

 

As for my Asus T100, I can literally open 3x as many tabs in Firefox than I could on 8.1 before it starts to become unresponsive due to hitting the swapfile on the eMMC. Although with 2GB of RAM, that's not that many tabs thanks to bloat on most websites now. Facebook is such a resource hog.

Edited September 19, 2015 by AlexAtkin

[goldenfleece 11]

I installed windows 10 upgrade on my laptop and it didnt work on its final reboot after installing... then the machine would not boot at all. I was forced to reboot from an old windows 8 recovery disk and re-install windows 8.....what a waste of a day

[me-and-pippo 12]

I installed windows 10 upgrade on my laptop and it didnt work on its final reboot after installing... then the machine would not boot at all. I was forced to reboot from an old windows 8 recovery disk and re-install windows 8.....what a waste of a day

 

Should have created a back-up/recovery image first, with Macrium Reflect Free, or Redo backup

Edited September 21, 2015 by me-and-pippo

[FORE 12]

I upgraded to 10 yesterday.

 

So inconsistent with internet speed, often not responding, but liked easier access to files.

 

.....and no driver for my printer.

 

I went back to win7 this afternoon and cannot believe how quick it is, so I'm out for the moment.