Birmingham Koran discovery

[Timeh 10]

Firstly i dont do religion of any kind but i love history and for those who love either or both, What a fab discovery this is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-33436021

[geared 303]

It's an amazing discovery, I wonder how old the oldest surviving bible manuscripts are??

[Blackbeard 10]

Try the Codex Sinaiticus

http://www.codexsinaiticus.org/en/codex/

[johncocker 10]

This is a fragment of one sura. It cannot be a fragment of a whole Koran because there is no evidence outside Islamic tradition that anything called a Koran (meaning 'lectionary' in Syriac) existed before the mid-8th century. There is no evidence outisde Islamic tradition for a Prophet called Muhammad or people called Muslims before the 690s either, come to that.

 

The Arab Conquests are a historical fact, but they were by people who did not yet call themselves Muslims. What we now know as the Koran evolved over a couple of centuries from the writings of a Syriac Christian sect and was then projected back to a supposed golden age. The stories we have about Muhammad's life are about as soundly based as our stories about King Arthur or Robin Hood.

[woodmally 10]

This is a fragment of one sura. It cannot be a fragment of a whole Koran because there is no evidence outside Islamic tradition that anything called a Koran (meaning 'lectionary' in Syriac) existed before the mid-8th century. There is no evidence outisde Islamic tradition for a Prophet called Muhammad or people called Muslims before the 690s either, come to that.

 

The Arab Conquests are a historical fact, but they were by people who did not yet call themselves Muslims. What we now know as the Koran evolved over a couple of centuries from the writings of a Syriac Christian sect and was then projected back to a supposed golden age. The stories we have about Muhammad's life are about as soundly based as our stories about King Arthur or Robin Hood.

 

Wasn't the lack of written records up to this point due to the fact that islam was an aural religion. ie passed down from tribes to tribes through recitals and nothing written down.

[geared 303]

The Arab Conquests are a historical fact, but they were by people who did not yet call themselves Muslims. What we now know as the Koran evolved over a couple of centuries from the writings of a Syriac Christian sect and was then projected back to a supposed golden age. The stories we have about Muhammad's life are about as soundly based as our stories about King Arthur or Robin Hood.

 

Wasn't the bible written a couple of hundred years after the fact as well though??

[Chris_Sleeps 10]

Wasn't the bible written a couple of hundred years after the fact as well though??

Yep, but The Bible doesn't make the claim of being the final and perfect word of God. The claim for the Qur'an is not that Mohammed wrote it - but that he was the vehicle for Allah's perfect and final message to the human race. It makes grander claims than The Bible.

 

However, you do find daft Christians who claim that the Holy Spirit influenced the men who wrote the Bible. God was in their ink, so to speak.

[geared 303]

oh right, I thought all religions made some kinda claim like that to be honest.

 

"They're all wrong, but we're the only one's who are right"

[milquetoast1 10]

Yep, but The Bible doesn't make the claim of being the final and perfect word of God. The claim for the Qur'an is not that Mohammed wrote it - but that he was the vehicle for Allah's perfect and final message to the human race. It makes grander claims than The Bible.

 

However, you do find daft Christians who claim that the Holy Spirit influenced the men who wrote the Bible. God was in their ink, so to speak.

 

I once heard some draft Christian moaning about immigrants speaking Spanish in the U.S. claiming "if English was good enough for the Bible it should be good enough for them."

 

Anyway, as for this Koran discovery I suspect somebody has just discovered a fantastic way to divert some Saudi money into their new project.

[poppet2 13]

This is a fragment of one sura. It cannot be a fragment of a whole Koran because there is no evidence outside Islamic tradition that anything called a Koran (meaning 'lectionary' in Syriac) existed before the mid-8th century. There is no evidence outisde Islamic tradition for a Prophet called Muhammad or people called Muslims before the 690s either, come to that.

 

The Arab Conquests are a historical fact, but they were by people who did not yet call themselves Muslims. What we now know as the Koran evolved over a couple of centuries from the writings of a Syriac Christian sect and was then projected back to a supposed golden age. The stories we have about Muhammad's life are about as soundly based as our stories about King Arthur or Robin Hood.

 

So who were Arabs worshiping before they called themselves Muslims?

[SnailyBoy 10]

Yep, but The Bible doesn't make the claim of being the final and perfect word of God. The claim for the Qur'an is not that Mohammed wrote it - but that he was the vehicle for Allah's perfect and final message to the human race. It makes grander claims than The Bible.

 

However, you do find daft Christians who claim that the Holy Spirit influenced the men who wrote the Bible. God was in their ink, so to speak.

 

There are some pretty corking claims in the Bible, creation of the Universe for example. Doesn't get much grander than that.

[MintPlumbing 10]

So who were Arabs worshiping before they called themselves Muslims?

 

It was a polytheistic culture before Mohammad brought all the tribes together to worship the Jewish and Christian God.