Should doctors work at the weekend?

[Cyclone 10]

There are no staff available to work any more hours, so how do you suggest that "more" is done with the same resource.

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

If existing NHS staff's hours of work were reorganised to include weekends- without the total hours worked being increased- fewer people would suffer; and many avoidable deaths/injuries would be avoided. Not only that; by improving use of equipment and facilities, so as to ensure less downtime, other savings might accrue. If people need the NHS at weekends and the need is non-elective, why refuse?

[Daven 10]

If existing NHS staff's hours of work were reorganised to include weekends- without the total hours worked being increased- fewer people would suffer; and many avoidable deaths/injuries would be avoided. Not only that; by improving use of equipment and facilities, so as to ensure less downtime, other savings might accrue. If people need the NHS at weekends and the need is non-elective, why refuse?

 

I'm not sure how that will work as the resources will be spread more thinly during the week to cover the weekend - there isn't an infinite amount of resources. Staff will need days off in the week to cover the weekends so there will be less staff during the week.

If people need the NHS and the need is non-elective i.e., urgent or emergency at weekends the resources are already there .

Edited September 10, 2015 by Daven

[Jeffrey Shaw 90]

I'm not sure how that will work as the resources will be spread more thinly during the week to cover the weekend - there isn't an infinite amount of resources.

True- except that fixed resources (buildings, machinery, plant etc.) would be better utilised: a saving.

[ratter71 10]

True- except that fixed resources (buildings, machinery, plant etc.) would be better utilised: a saving.

 

Not necessarily true, as an example a recent report on the news focused on having a consultant general surgeon on site 24/7. At the moment there may be a consultant on call, possibly with a reg or F2 on site. There isnt the demand for emergency general surgery to keep a consultant busy 24/7, so they would need to do elective work to utilise the staff & fixed resources.

 

Would you like to attend for your elective hernia op at half past eight on Saturday night, or have your piles tied at 0300 hrs on a Sunday? I cant see many people opting for elective stuff at unsocial hours.

[sgtkate 10]

Would you like to attend for your elective hernia op at half past eight on Saturday night, or have your piles tied at 0300 hrs on a Sunday? I cant see many people opting for elective stuff at unsocial hours.

 

If the choice was have it at 3am this Wednesday or wait 3 months I think that might change a lot of people's mind.

 

The NHS will only work if both it and it's patients change. Patients need to start being more flexible too where they can but doctors needs to reciprocate.

 

Full 24/7 working is just the start. We need to utilise technology to reduce the strain on NHS resources. So many people just do not need to see a doctor and could use Skype calling or automated health checkers (a step further than say those blood sugar checkers diabetics can use) that will instantly ping a doctor if your condition needs checking up on etc. Currently we seem to be treading water and slowly sinking.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Surgery is avoided after midnight, unless there is serious risk of harm if the surgery is not performed, due to morbidity rates increasing.

 

---------- Post added 11-09-2015 at 16:19 ----------

 

True- except that fixed resources (buildings, machinery, plant etc.) would be better utilised: a saving.

 

There would also be higher costs of using the facilities such electricity, added wear and tear etc as well as cost of the extra consumables.

[Eric Arthur 10]

Surgery is avoided after midnight, unless there is serious risk of harm if the surgery is not performed, due to morbidity rates increasing.

Because consultants are in bed instead of in theatre, leaving junior doctors to do work that they shouldn't be doing.

 

There would also be higher costs of using the facilities such electricity, added wear and tear etc as well as cost of the extra consumables.

That is pennies compared to slashing the cost of building new facilities that stand unused, buying equipment that sits unused.

 

The surplus property can be sold off to reinvest in patient care.

 

Poor utilisation is a serious problem in government services and its being dealt with in many areas but the people in the NHS seems to think that it should be exempt from ordinary efficiencies.

 

 

There was good news yesterday though. The BMA has finally conceded and they are going to negotiate moving to a 7 day NHS.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34217248

[JFKvsNixon 11]

Because consultants are in bed instead of in theatre, leaving junior doctors to do work that they shouldn't be doing.

 

Rubbish, if you bothered to look you'd notice that there are clear guidelines about who should be in theatre during specific cases.

 

---------- Post added 12-09-2015 at 15:35 ----------

 

That is pennies compared to slashing the cost of building new facilities that stand unused, buying equipment that sits unused.

 

The surplus property can be sold off to reinvest in patient care.

 

Poor utilisation is a serious problem in government services and its being dealt with in many areas but the people in the NHS seems to think that it should be exempt from ordinary efficiencies.

 

 

There was good news yesterday though. The BMA has finally conceded and they are going to negotiate moving to a 7 day NHS.

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-34217248

 

So, when you consider that the hospital trusts receive a payment for each operation that they carry out, where is the money going to come from to fund the extra operations that will be carried out during the weekend?

Edited September 12, 2015 by JFKvsNixon

[Berberis 10]

The Doctor that told you that there were 5 doctors on duty for the whole hospital was talking rubbish! However, any shortages of staff on duty at the night has got nothing to do with people not wanting to work the shifts, but due to the trusts cutting back on costs.

 

OK so how do you know this? I spoke to the doctor, face to face. Did you? Were you on duty at the same time in the Norther General when he told me this. If so, when was it? What day and at what time? Lets compare.

 

---------- Post added 12-09-2015 at 15:39 ----------

 

There are no staff available to work any more hours, so how do you suggest that "more" is done with the same resource.

 

20 operations to be carried out in a 5 day block need the same number of staff as 20 operations carried out in a 7 day block. The maths is simple.

[JFKvsNixon 11]

OK so how do you know this? I spoke to the doctor, face to face. Did you? Were you on duty at the same time in the Norther General when he told me this. If so, when was it? What day and at what time? Lets compare.

 

So five doctors on duty? For starters, ignoring the junior doctors, the house officers and señor house officers covering the wards, who was working in ITU? Who was working in the cardiac ITU? Who was working in A&E? Who was working in the Trauma theatres? For example you need at least two doctors to operate.

 

---------- Post added 12-09-2015 at 15:52 ----------

 

20 operations to be carried out in a 5 day block need the same number of staff as 20 operations carried out in a 7 day block. The maths is simple.

 

No it's not, for example you need a minimum amount of people to be able to operate in an operating theatre, irrespective of how many operations are carried out during the day.

Edited September 12, 2015 by JFKvsNixon

[Eric Arthur 10]

It would be nice if the NHS was as perfect as you imagine it to be. You are living in cloud cuckoo land though. 11,000 extra deaths a year prove it.