2015- July Budget

[phoenixboy 10]

I'm still not sure why its a problem to have this support as a loan? Especially if the result of the loan is getting a degree which enables you to access higher paid jobs.

It's not even a big chunk of your earnings that's going to be paid back 9% of 22k is £90 a year and after 30 years the debt is wiped regardless.

 

Its enough because of the exposure....on 35k looking at approx £130 per month. And thats every month, all the best part of working life. think of it as a loan repayment that never ends...

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 12:53 ----------

 

Because those from a richer background are likely to get support from their parents which isn't available to those from a poorer background.

 

and thats an excellent point. the disadvantaged student on the round gets less support from parents than the richer ones. through school to FE to HE the student from a poor background gets a raw deal under the tories.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 12:56 ----------

 

may i just add, loans were taken by poor students before. the grant which was taken away is just one part of the costs of going to university.

 

important to get some perspective. not as if poor students were freeloading before.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 12:58 ----------

 

Why should those from poorer backgrounds get their education free when others have to take out a loan.

All students should have the same criteria applied.

 

they dont get education for free. see above.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 13:05 ----------

 

tuition fees £9K PER YEAR

living costs £8.5k PER YEAR *based on maximum loan support

 

Total cost of a 3 year course at University (non london) : £52.5k

 

Although it could be significantly more:

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/budget-2015-universities-will-be-allowed-to-raise-fees-beyond-9000-says-george-osborne-10375910.html

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 13:08 ----------

 

I would argue for more than £50 grand you can get amazing private sector training or life experience...and still end up at the same point in career.

university is generally poor value for money.

Edited July 11, 2015 by phoenixboy
.....

[psynuk 10]

Total payable if job taken at nmw = £0

 

£1350 of £35k is a more than fair deal if the other option is £0 of £15k

[phoenixboy 10]

Total payable if job taken at nmw = £0

 

£1350 of £35k is a more than fair deal if the other option is £0 of £15k

 

and what would be the point of huge debt, 3 years+ hard work to then just get NMW job?

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 13:21 ----------

 

.....moot point?

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 13:22 ----------

 

there are other options tha knows.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 13:23 ----------

 

We shall indeed. The policy can always be reconsidered if the evidence is that it's damaging.

Let's not have any misleading statistics on the subject though. I for one don't give a hoot if the number of people going to university to do media studies falls by 99%, but I don't want to see a drop off in the most economically useful degrees.

 

agree. if off to uni, makes no sense on a jolly up. its quite a serious consideration.

[the_bloke 17]

Why should those from poorer backgrounds get their education free when others have to take out a loan.

All students should have the same criteria applied.

 

They used to. Labour killed the student grant system and replaced it with loans, and then exclaimed they wanted everyone to go to University. As a result Universities started creating low quality courses to cater for the planned influx of students who weren't capable of qualifying for and passing the traditional subjects.

 

As one of the last people to ever go to Uni on a grant (I finished in 1998) I know that some of the people I studied with from poor backgrounds - possibly even myself, I came from a single parent home - simply wouldn't have gone if faced with a pure loan system. Grants were means tested, but the criteria meant most people had one; I certainly didn't know anyone who didn't have a grant but then I didn't go to Oxbridge.

[harvey19 541]

To extend this topic, should an apprentice from a poor background get more money than an apprentice from a richer background ?

The same arguments can be used to say the richer parents can subsidise their child whilst completing their apprenticeship.

[phoenixboy 10]

To extend this topic, should an apprentice from a poor background get more money than an apprentice from a richer background ?

The same arguments can be used to say the richer parents can subsidise their child whilst completing their apprenticeship.

 

apprentice wages are set by the government. An employer can choose to pay more to individuals but cant pay less then what the law says. I cant see many parents being happy subsidising privately run businesses.

[psynuk 10]

and what would be the point of huge debt, 3 years+ hard work to then just get NMW job?

 

I meant better to go to uni, pay your loan at 9% of wages for 30 years

than never go and have no loan payments but restrict your income.

 

And many people do end up on nmw despite being a graduate thats why its fair, its a graduate income tax in all but name.

Also regarding the 50k of personal training. that's not even close to a like for like comparison to the terms of a student loan.

[phoenixboy 10]

I meant better to go to uni, pay your loan at 9% of wages for 30 years

than never go and have no loan payments but restrict your income.

 

And many people do end up on nmw despite being a graduate thats why its fair, its a graduate income tax in all but name.

Also regarding the 50k of personal training. that's not even close to a like for like comparison to the terms of a student loan.

 

im not necessarily disagreeing with you. its getting less appealing to go to uni though. whats the tipping point? 50 grand debt? 100 grand debt? when does cost outweigh benefit?

 

50 grand for private training is quite a lot. a lot of courses, qualifications and a lot of knowledge. Say you started work at 18 worked your way up, and either you or employer invested 50k, I think by aged 30 you would be in a pretty powerful position in the workforce.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 17:11 ----------

 

regarding first point: a doctor we might think 100k and 7 years is a good investment. A media studies student might think 50k and 3 years is less good or even waste of money. but then again, if that media studies student gets a high paid job, it could be a great investment!

all depends.

Edited July 11, 2015 by phoenixboy
....

[Anna B 1,401]

im not necessarily disagreeing with you. its getting less appealing to go to uni though. whats the tipping point? 50 grand debt? 100 grand debt? when does cost outweigh benefit?

 

50 grand for private training is quite a lot. a lot of courses, qualifications and a lot of knowledge. Say you started work at 18 worked your way up, and either you or employer invested 50k, I think by aged 30 you would be in a pretty powerful position in the workforce.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 17:11 ----------

 

regarding first point: a doctor we might think 100k and 7 years is a good investment. A media studies student might think 50k and 3 years is less good or even waste of money. but then again, if that media studies student gets a high paid job, it could be a great investment!

all depends.

 

I'm not sure what a media studies course involves, but considering we live in a multi-media age I don't know why people give it such a hard time. Surely it's just as useful as, say, geography or history, but they don't get the same slagging off.

[harvey19 541]

I'm not sure what a media studies course involves, but considering we live in a multi-media age I don't know why people give it such a hard time. Surely it's just as useful as, say, geography or history, but they don't get the same slagging off.

 

Not heard anyone mention the underwater basket weaving courses for a while.

[Jack Harknes 10]

That's just stupid.

 

I know what your getting at, but if the only use of degrees is as a yardstick for selectivity... Then why wouldn't you want everyone who could, to have one?

Yes you'd need an other yardstick on top of the degree level but still.

 

Is their anyone who thinks education is a bad thing?

 

Education is good but the system we have isn't good for everyone and most people don't need a degree.

[phoenixboy 10]

I'm not sure what a media studies course involves, but considering we live in a multi-media age I don't know why people give it such a hard time. Surely it's just as useful as, say, geography or history, but they don't get the same slagging off.

 

Anna, its just so general. My missus did one.

 

---------- Post added 11-07-2015 at 20:12 ----------

 

And i did half her essays! Lol