Deradicalisation

[flamingjimmy 10]

weary of an individual who expressed a desire to join the ranks of ISIL.

Am I wrong in my thoughts ?

 

Yes, definitely. Google Stanley Milgram and have a look at some of his work. Under the right circumstances, pretty much all of us have it within us to be monsters, especially as part of closely nit groups with clearly defined enemies with authority figures telling us what to do (ie the structure of Isis).

Edited July 3, 2015 by flamingjimmy

[johncocker 10]

I heard it announced (Radio. World Service) that there is a programme available for "De radicalising " potential DJihadsts". Apparently with a dgree of success.

It occurs to me that it is impossible to reform a psychopath.You see, for a person to be attracted to the likes of ISIL then there has to be something deeply wrong with your mental health.

The mental health of those attracted to ISIL seems to be studiously ignored

by the pundits and commentators reporting on the "doings" of ISIL .

Granting that the majority of society are fully in control of their cognitive and emotional faculties; and find the likes of ISIL highly repugnant. To have the urge to join such an organisation IMO puts that person into the category of a

murderess maniac . I'm not convinced that a potential recruit is just a bit confused. I would be very weary of an individual who expressed a desire to join the ranks of ISIL.

 

Am I wrong in my thoughts ?

......

 

So if someone sits in his/her bedroom for weeks on end, planning to kill people in their local pub because you don't like their customer service, but caught before carrying it out, they'll be charged at least with attempted murder and could receive anything from 7-15 years in jail, at least.

 

However, if that same person sits in his/her bedroom for weeks planning to kill people in Syria for a religious cause, but caught coming back before/after carrying out murders, we should all sit down over tea and biscuits and have a little chat.

 

I'm all for rehabilitation and deradicalizing but we should all be equal under law. If you want to change the procedure in how to deal with would-be murderers then lets do it for all would-be murderers, not just the Islamic would-be murderers. .

Am I wrong in my thoughts?

 

 

How do you deradicalise returning Isis fighters after their jihad gap year ?

 

Cut their benefits:o

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 14:57 ----------

 

Drop God from the equation for a while.

An individual who is attracted to and has a desire to carry out acts of :brutality,unusual cruelty ,torture and murder is hardly in a good state of mind.

Are home grown potential terrorists simply misguided-under the influence of others - and alienated ? A jolly good Deradicalising and being persuaded of the error of their ways, is that all that is needed ?

IMO the attraction to ISIS is symptomatic of a deep and thorough going derangement. A derangement that is beyond the reach of social engineering or therapy . :

 

the attraction to ISIS is martydom. They are not interested in earthly glory. The body is to be sacrificed for martyrdom and the peace and glory you will find in the afterlife. It is a great feeling. All the feelings of burden of responsibility for your family falls away. You cease to care and become a parrot repeating what the heads of the organisation say. You no longer fear either poverty or illness or even death. Everything is for the sake of the organisation which has convinced you that you will surely go to heaven if you listen to them. Normal young men turn into merciless murderers, since they have dehumanised their enemies, largely those in the west who according to them are fallen and depraved and Satan's agents sent to tempt them.

Edited July 3, 2015 by johncocker

[petemcewan 27]

Yes, definitely. Google Stanley Milgram and have a look at some of his work. Under the right circumstances, pretty much all of us have it within us to be monsters, especially as part of closely nit groups with clearly defined enemies with authority figures telling us what to do (ie the structure of Isis).

 

It's a good point. I'm familiar with Milgram's work on obedience and authotity.

You are right about " monsters in the Id". Most of society have "Egos " and

"Super Egos " that keep the "monsters" in check.

What I'm saying is that the ISIS recruit has a "character disorder" (personality) I don't have such a disorder.The upshot being? That I'm not dangerous but they are. I believe that the character disorder- and the behaviour that such a flaw gives rise to- is beyond adjustment. But that is only my opinion.

I won't be rushing to welcome any returning terrorists with a nice cup of tea and a bun ! So it goes.

 

---------- Post added 04-07-2015 at 09:06 ----------

 

......

 

So if someone sits in his/her bedroom for weeks on end, planning to kill people in their local pub because you don't like their customer service, but caught before carrying it out, they'll be charged at least with attempted murder and could receive anything from 7-15 years in jail, at least.

 

However, if that same person sits in his/her bedroom for weeks planning to kill people in Syria for a religious cause, but caught coming back before/after carrying out murders, we should all sit down over tea and biscuits and have a little chat.

 

I'm all for rehabilitation and deradicalizing but we should all be equal under law. If you want to change the procedure in how to deal with would-be murderers then lets do it for all would-be murderers, not just the Islamic would-be murderers. .

Am I wrong in my thoughts?

 

 

How do you deradicalise returning Isis fighters after their jihad gap year ?

 

Cut their benefits:o

 

---------- Post added 03-07-2015 at 14:57 ----------

 

 

the attraction to ISIS is martydom. They are not interested in earthly glory. The body is to be sacrificed for martyrdom and the peace and glory you will find in the afterlife. It is a great feeling. All the feelings of burden of responsibility for your family falls away. You cease to care and become a parrot repeating what the heads of the organisation say. You no longer fear either poverty or illness or even death. Everything is for the sake of the organisation which has convinced you that you will surely go to heaven if you listen to them. Normal young men turn into merciless murderers, since they have dehumanised their enemies, largely those in the west who according to them are fallen and depraved and Satan's agents sent to tempt them.

 

You pose some difficult questions: even hand of justice etc. I'm intrigued as to know how ,"it's a great feeling" ?

I suppose somebody described such feelings for you.

I don't subscribe to the view that "Normal young men turn into merciless murders". I do subscribe to the view that psychotic young men can become

"merciless" brutal ,cruel and sadistic killers.

But I do take on board the rest of your descriptions

Edited July 4, 2015 by petemcewan

[johncocker 10]

It's a good point. I'm familiar with Milgram's work on obedience and authotity.

You are right about " monsters in the Id". Most of society have "Egos " and

"Super Egos " that keep the "monsters" in check.

What I'm saying is that the ISIS recruit has a "character disorder" (personality) I don't have such a disorder.The upshot being? That I'm not dangerous but they are. I believe that the character disorder- and the behaviour that such a flaw gives rise to- is beyond adjustment. But that is only my opinion.

I won't be rushing to welcome any returning terrorists with a nice cup of tea and a bun ! So it goes.

 

 

if you are familiar with milgrams work you'd know the 65% headline figure, of people who followed the experimenters’ orders and went to the maximum voltage on the shock machine, implied that there was a single experiment. In fact there were 24 different variations, or mini dramas, each with a different script, actors and experimental set up.

By examining records of the experiment held at Yale, you'd find that in over half of the 24 variations, 60% of people disobeyed the instructions of the authority and refused to continue.

 

quote/Milgram went to great lengths with the stagecraft of his experiment, and was dismissive of subjects’ claims that they had seen through the hoax. Yet unpublished papers at Yale show that suspicion was alive and well among many of Milgram’s subjects (which is not surprising, given that Candid Camera was the most popular TV show in the United States at that time).

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

---------- Post added 04-07-2015 at 09:06 ----------

 

You pose some difficult questions: even hand of justice etc. I'm intrigued as to know how ,"it's a great feeling" ?

I suppose somebody described such feelings for you.

I don't subscribe to the view that "Normal young men turn into merciless murders". I do subscribe to the view that psychotic young men can become

"merciless" brutal ,cruel and sadistic killers.

But I do take on board the rest of your descriptions

imagine dying for something you belieive in.

[The Joker 10]

It occurs to me that it is impossible to reform a psychopath.You see, for a person to be attracted to the likes of ISIL then there has to be something deeply wrong with your mental health.

 

But you could argue the same about anybody who wanted to join the army.

[Tommo68 10]

Deradicalisation is surely a waste of time effort and expense and the victim can always fake having attained the required result.

 

Far too much pussy-footing around going on.

 

Radicalisation can be neutralised quickly and with 100% effect with very little chance of a faked result.

 

The placing of a lead pill with a diameter of approximately 9mm into the skull at the speed of sound will do the job most effectively. Should a pulse persist then apply a second dose.

.

.

[The Joker 10]

Radicalisation can be neutralised quickly and with 100% effect with very little chance of a faked result.

 

The placing of a lead pill with a diameter of approximately 9mm into the skull at the speed of sound will do the job most effectively. Should a pulse persist then apply a second dose.

 

We tried that approach in Afghanistan and Iraq and to be honest. . . Both attempts have been a disaster.

 

Do you think it's time for some new ideas ?

[petemcewan 27]

But you could argue the same about anybody who wanted to join the army.

 

Mr Joker,

 

A good point. I dare say,that joining the Army may be attractive to a "psychopath" .However, I think it is possible to utilise psychometric testing

procedures ,to tease out those who get off on killing and torturing people.

 

You probably have noticed that I've steered clear of the "psycho/sexual "

dimension that could be operating in the mind of potential ISIS recruits.

I think it might be a step to far for the delicate sensitivities of Forum posters. I could be wrong -you think ?

Edited July 5, 2015 by petemcewan

[The Joker 10]

Mr Joker,

 

A good point. I dare say,that joining the Army may be attractive to a "psychopath" .However, I think it is possible to utilise psychometric testing

procedures ,to tease out those who get off on killing and torturing people.

 

You probably have noticed that I've steered clear of the "psycho/sexual "

dimension that could be operating in the mind of potential ISIS recruits.

I think it might be a step to far for the delicate sensitivities of Forum posters. I could be wrong -you think ?

 

if you examine the problem from the viewpoint of the potential ISIL recruit, then we (Western nations) are the psychopaths.

 

According to them:

 

We supported the despotic leaders who have oppressed the Muslims in the Middle East (Saddam, Mubarak, the Shah of Iran, the House of Saud) when it was convenient to do so.

 

Now, we invade their countries, kill their men, arrest their children, rape their women and destroy their societies (things that we ironically accuse them of).

 

When the ISIS recruiters mention these things in their online sermons, I expect that is a major influence to disaffected members of society who see ISIS as standing up for the interests of the Muslim community.

 

I do think it is possible to combat this through dialogue instead of violence, because perhaps not all the ISIS recruits are the demons we are making them out to be.

 

Some probably are, but others might just upset at the desperate situation their communities are going through overseas, and others are just very gullible and not very bright.

Edited July 5, 2015 by The Joker
typing long posts on a smartphone is nearly impossible, I should do something more constructive with my day

[Zamo 10]

I do think it is possible to combat this through dialogue instead of violence, because perhaps not all the ISIS recruits are the demons we are making them out to be.

 

Some probably are, but others might just upset at the desperate situation their communities are going through overseas, and others are just very gullible and not very bright.

 

Radicalised Muslims are 'moderate' Muslims who have made the short journey from believing in their religion to believing in imposing their religion... there is little other difference. The shared core beliefs provide a platform from which the radical can too easily reach down and pull up the demons, gullible and not very bright from below.

 

Muslims need to wake up to this reality and work out how to put distance between themselves and the extremism in order to starve it of recruits. The focus needs to be on preventing radicalisation in the first place and that is something only Muslims can address.

[petemcewan 27]

if you examine the problem from the viewpoint of the potential ISIL recruit, then we (Western nations) are the psychopaths.

 

According to them:

 

We supported the despotic leaders who have oppressed the Muslims in the Middle East (Saddam, Mubarak, the Shah of Iran, the House of Saud) when it was convenient to do so.

 

Now, we invade their countries, kill their men, arrest their children, rape their women and destroy their societies (things that we ironically accuse them of).

 

When the ISIS recruiters mention these things in their online sermons, I expect that is a major influence to disaffected members of society who see ISIS as standing up for the interests of the Muslim community.

 

I do think it is possible to combat this through dialogue instead of violence, because perhaps not all the ISIS recruits are the demons we are making them out to be.

 

Some probably are, but others might just upset at the desperate situation their communities are going through overseas, and others are just very gullible and not very bright.

 

Mr Joker,

I don't necessarily disagree with many of your political points. I'm certainly not advocating violence as a solution. The points you make are -for me- the general rationalisations used to describe political affairs.

I certainly empathise with the conditions that you adequately descibe.

In addition, I'm definitely not of the opinion that potential ISIS recruits are dim witted and plainly stupid-not at all.

What I'm suggesting is that there is "Psychological" dimension to the motives that drive individuals into the embrace of ISIS .Moreover,that those motives are beyond correction-either by social engineering or therapy.

Now I'm not suggesting that there is a sliding scale of acceptable state or individual violence. However,in the context of this discussion-the variety and ingenuity of: brutality,cruelty and sadism, perpetrated by the representatives of ISIS is enough to make one question

the sanity of the participants.

I'll finish on this note. The homicidal psychopath-on the outside- looks just like you and me. Just as the Commandant of Auschwitz was a happily married family man- not a bug eyed monster dressed in black.

you could be sat next to one in the Sheath!! Ting-a-ling.

 

PS. I don't mean to keep this going. But I'm surprised that no one has

said that I'm insinuating that "Homicidal Psychopaths" are born that way and not made that way.

However, many books have been written trying to untangle that conundrum . So it goes.

Edited July 5, 2015 by petemcewan

[mafya 249]

British people are angry that fellow Britons got murdered whilst on holiday even though they didn't know the people personally and some Britons turn against Muslims and some end up supporting anti Muslim groups.

In the same way some Muslims feel the same kind of empathy with fellow Muslims killed abroad in other country's and the extremists then recruit and brainwash some of these Muslims into joining them.

This is my understanding of the situation, the religion of Islam doesn't make people a terrorist but it is used to justify terrorist actions by the extremists.