Terrorist attacks in Tunisia & Kuwait. "At least" 27 and 10 dead.

[harvey19 541]

Why not research the answers to these fascinating question and then come back and present your findings?

 

After researching the subject I think people need to read the newspapers reports on Google to get a full picture.

It appears that he was unsackable and nothing to do with his failure at bringing about peace why he finally went.

Edited June 28, 2015 by harvey19

[Bigthumb 10]

I can't agree with your argument but do understand exactly what you are saying.

 

The downside I can see is massive anger against the west, more radicalisation and and more home grown attacks against us here. Have to remember that the current phase of low levels of radicalisation has been driven by anger over western intervention.

 

It would solve nothing

 

How do you know what is causing radicalisation? We have no evidence to show it isn't a load of brain washed nutters who want to live under the repression of their religion......and kill anyone who doesn't conform.

 

I don't remember a huge backlash from Japan after a couple of nukes flattened Nagasaki and Hiroshima.

Edited June 28, 2015 by Bigthumb

[L00b 441]

You were less than keen about the nuclear option (although I suspect l00b was making mischief) but does it matter really if civilians are nuked, shot or gassed? Still dead if we use any sort of military action. It's unavoidable.

I was...and I wasn't.

 

ISIS are extremely wealthy and control a non-trivial acreage of Middle Eastern sand dunes, within which life makes North Korea look like Club Med. They are, to all intents and purposes, a country already, and are hell-bent on getting ever larger, with no end in sight. So, a fascist country waging a war of aggression and subjugating conquered lands in ways that would make Himmler blush.

 

The thing is, ISIS absolutely do not engage with traditional statist apparel such as diplomatic representations and talks, and other nation state conventions such as e.g. exchanging prisoners. They conquer by, live by, rule by and only understand, force.

 

In that context -and I've long said this- the only way for the West to 'win', and I mean that in as generic a sense as possible (whether we're happy to let them keep what they've got, or wipe them out, or anything in-between: same difference), is to out-terrorise the terrorists to the extent of taking all of the wind out of their sails, and then the sails, and the hull as well while we're at it. Basically, and in really simple terms, being stronger than them, making sure they know it, and are and stay said about it.

 

Doesn't matter how we go about it, this being an exceptional case wherein the end truly justifies whatever means: assassination of wealthy supporters, deportation (to Syria) of families of positively-ID'd ISIS volunteers, the full MI5+MI6 works on 'borderline' imams, maybe all the way to Hercules-assisted Med-diving contests for positively-ID'd (and foiled) terrorists. Low yield tactical nukes, yes, that was mischief...ish. Wouldn't win us any friends, that is for sure. But it's damn cost-effective and would remind all sorts of barking and snapping dogs (Putin amongst them) to think twice about coming for a poo in our front garden.

 

ISIS are giving a war, and the knocking at the door is getting loud and insistent. War is never pretty, fair, welcome, etc. and whoever wages it by the rules will keep losing until the rule book is thrown out. That much has been demonstrated, clear as day, by ISIS, Putin, Assad, Israel and more, that today it is he who wields and uses a big stick who calls the tune. Time we did our own using and calling. Rule #1 of warfare: be disruptive. When the engagement tactic or strategy isn't going your way, change the rules.

 

Or just accept defeat (in practical terms), stop going on holidays pretty much anywhere in and around the Med (save for Italy, France and Spain) and travelling for business or pleasure to over 75% of the globe for any purposes, and fence ourselves in à la Israel.

 

I guess I'm just fed up of ISIS, Al-Shabab and all that ilk running rampant everywhere, getting ever more disruptive to our way of life by the day (and by 'our', I mean that of everyone who just wants to be left in peace to make a living and get by, like Tunisian Joe Averages who just want to eke an annual living out of 4 months' worth of tourism season...guess it's gonna be bread and water for them this year), without any end in sight.

Edited June 28, 2015 by L00b

[cuttsie 1,091]

How does it sound coordinated? There are ISIS attacks every single day.

 

As for Tunisia, I don't understand the mentality of someone who would holiday in a Muslim country in the current climate.

North Cyprus any one?

[convert 10]

I was...and I wasn't.

 

ISIS are extremely wealthy and control a non-trivial acreage of Middle Eastern sand dunes, within which life makes North Korea look like Club Med. They are, to all intents and purposes, a country already, and are hell-bent on getting ever larger, with no end in sight. So, a fascist country waging a war of aggression and subjugating conquered lands in ways that would make Himmler blush.

 

The thing is, ISIS absolutely do not engage with traditional statist apparel such as diplomatic representations and talks, and other nation state conventions such as e.g. exchanging prisoners. They conquer by, live by, rule by and only understand, force.

 

In that context -and I've long said this- the only way for the West to 'win', and I mean that in as generic a sense as possible (whether we're happy to let them keep what they've got, or wipe them out, or anything in-between: same difference), is to out-terrorise the terrorists to the extent of taking all of the wind out of their sails, and then the sails, and the hull as well while we're at it. Basically, and in really simple terms, being stronger than them, making sure they know it, and are and stay said about it.

 

Doesn't matter how we go about it, this being an exceptional case wherein the end truly justifies whatever means: assassination of wealthy supporters, deportation (to Syria) of families of positively-ID'd ISIS volunteers, the full MI5+MI6 works on 'borderline' imams, maybe all the way to Hercules-assisted Med-diving contests for positively-ID'd (and foiled) terrorists. Low yield tactical nukes, yes, that was mischief...ish. Wouldn't win us any friends, that is for sure. But it's damn cost-effective and would remind all sorts of barking and snapping dogs (Putin amongst them) to think twice about coming for a poo in our front garden.

 

ISIS are giving a war, and the knocking at the door is getting loud and insistent. War is never pretty, fair, welcome, etc. and whoever wages it by the rules will keep losing until the rule book is thrown out. That much has been demonstrated, clear as day, by ISIS, Putin, Assad, Israel and more, that today it is he who wields and uses a big stick who calls the tune. Time we did our own using and calling. Rule #1 of warfare: be disruptive. When the engagement tactic or strategy isn't going your way, change the rules.

 

Or just accept defeat (in practical terms), stop going on holidays pretty much anywhere in and around the Med (save for Italy, France and Spain) and travelling for business or pleasure to over 75% of the globe for any purposes, and fence ourselves in à la Israel.

 

I guess I'm just fed up of ISIS, Al-Shabab and all that ilk running rampant everywhere, getting ever more disruptive to our way of life by the day (and by 'our', I mean that of everyone who just wants to be left in peace to make a living and get by, like Tunisian Joe Averages who just want to eke an annual living out of 4 months' worth of tourism season...guess it's gonna be bread and water for them this year), without any end in sight.

 

Bravo, We have some very difficult, and uncomfortable choices to make.

 

I'm not advocating bombing them back to the stone age (I know they're already half way there).

 

To Quote Karl Popper

 

"unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

[Bigthumb 10]

 

I'm not advocating bombing them back to the stone age (I know they're already half way there).

 

To Quote Karl Popper

 

"unlimited tolerance must lead to the disappearance of tolerance. If we extend unlimited tolerance even to those who are intolerant, if we are not prepared to defend a tolerant society against the onslaught of the intolerant, then the tolerant will be destroyed, and tolerance with them."

 

That only applies to folk who you are not already at war with. As IS has stated its intention of attacking the west and pretty much everyone else on the planet we don't need to worry too much about antagonising them.

 

I trust the rest of the world will wake up to the danger that this load of religious nutcases poses. IS will use whatever weapons they can get their hands on to attack civilisation that doesn't conform to their Islamic idl. If they get nukes they will use them. If they get chemical weapons they will use them. They take no prisoners.

 

We should get together and flatten the whole lot of them including any from this country that want to throw their lot in with them.

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2015 at 11:49 ----------

 

North Cyprus any one?

 

Not for me. Not whilst this is happening.

 

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2689220/From-coast-town-ghost-town-Eerie-images-derelict-houses-hotels-planes-Nicosia-divided-capital-city-world-Turkey-invaded-Cyprus-40-years-ago.html

[boyfriday 21]

You are right though that IS are trying to cause division between Muslims and non-Muslims and to provoke fighting

 

.....which requires ordinary Muslims to reform their religion and propagated something that isn't leaving their children ripe for extremist picking.

 

IS are also trying to cause divisions between Muslims too, so if there was any credence in the second part of your post they would have done it long ago!

[smilersarah 10]

IS are also trying to cause divisions between Muslims too, so if there was any credence in the second part of your post they would have done it long ago!

 

divisions between anyone that doesnt adhere to the hardline stance of isis, sunni against shia or isis against the west they dont care, one thing though something has to be done which involves securing the borders around the affected areas nothing goes in or out and selectively target the headquarters with drones or other strike missiles.

there will be innocents involved but that must be a price paid before the world becomes more dangerous than it already is.

[Blaster Bate 10]

North Cyprus any one?

North Cyprus is under Turkish control therefore not so bad. I've holidayed in both Turkey and Tunisia and quite frankly Turkey was far better than Tunisia a place I'd never return to.

 

---------- Post added 28-06-2015 at 12:19 ----------

 

The question that should be asked is, where are IS getting their funding?

[I1L2T3 10]

IS are also trying to cause divisions between Muslims too, so if there was any credence in the second part of your post they would have done it long ago!

 

Like I mentioned earlier ISIS are fighting Hamas in Gaza, assassinating each others leaders.

 

Israel are even providing tacit support to Muslim groups in southern Syria, doing stuff like opening border points to let medical supplies through to Muslim paramilitaries fighting ISIS. Unthinkable a few years ago.

[Zamo 10]

IS are also trying to cause divisions between Muslims too, so if there was any credence in the second part of your post they would have done it long ago!

 

How many of the British Muslims who have joined IS would have done so if they hadn't been brought up Muslim? How many would be embracing a violent intolerant ideology? Next to none would be my guess.

 

You can't escape the glaringly obvious truth that the way British Muslims raise their children positions them where they can easily be lured across by the Islamist extremism. If they don't want that to b the fate of so many, or risk the wrath of the wider community, then they are going to have to do something about it.

[Blaster Bate 10]

Another excellent post.

BTW anyone know where IS funding comes from?