Terrorist attacks in Tunisia & Kuwait. "At least" 27 and 10 dead.

[Nagel 10]

Been done before, when we 'bombed' China with Opium, in the Opium wars.

 

The opium wars were about trade protection. Our biggest export from India was opium and our biggest market was China. The country became dysfunctional because so many people were addicted so the Chinese government (or Emperor, I don't recall which) banned the imports.

 

So we waged war against them, twice, until they reversed their policy

[Chazndave 10]

My relative is currently there in lock down of hotel room. Flys home sunday. Awful experience and she wasnt near the gunshots.

[Zamo 10]

 

one of my old mates was similer, he swapped between anarchist, satanist and hari krishna in about 2 years, i havent seen him since.

 

That is an interesting point Mel. I've said it before that many youth seek to rebel and are drawn to the idea of a 'cause'. The problem is that for those brought up Muslim the cause is generally Islamic extremism... their upbringing effectively took them to the door and all but held it open for them to step through. Meanwhile the rebellious non-muslim youth get piercings, get drunk, explore anarchy, maxism or whatever. The difference is that one cultural/religious upbringing leads to tolerable rebellion and the other to violent and dangerous rebellion.

 

Like it or not, those who perpetuate Islamic culture are also perpetuating the extremist problem that is part and parcel. They are part of the problem and the only ones who can deliver a solution. They need to modernise and moderate.

[unbeliever 10]

That is an interesting point Mel. I've said it before that many youth seek to rebel and are drawn to the idea of a 'cause'. The problem is that for those brought up Muslim the cause is generally Islamic extremism... their upbringing effectively took them to the door and all but held it open for them to step through. Meanwhile the rebellious non-muslim youth get piercings, get drunk, explore anarchy, maxism or whatever. The difference is that one cultural/religious upbringing leads to tolerable rebellion and the other to violent and dangerous rebellion.

 

Like it or not, those who perpetuate Islamic culture are also perpetuating the extremist problem that is part and parcel. They are part of the problem and the only ones who can deliver a solution. They need to modernise and moderate.

 

Problem is that when moderate muslims step up and speak out, they go straight to the top of the fundamentalist hit list.

[milquetoast1 10]

Problem is that when moderate muslims step up and speak out, they go straight to the top of the fundamentalist hit list.

 

Like Maajid Nawaz as I pointed out on the other thread.

[Bigthumb 10]

dont you find it odd that the vast majority of victims are muslim too?

 

seems odd, muslims blowing up muslims?

 

maybe its something slightly different?

 

I know you are very reluctant to spit it out, but the common factor is that it is muslims doing the killing.

The Nazis murdered millions 1935-45. They killed jews, gypsies even Germans. The common factor was it was the Nazis doing the murdering.

[Zamo 10]

Only turned my back for two minutes and missed B&Q's pitchfork sale.

 

And there's the problem BF. The pitchfork response is an inevitable response to an unchecked Muslim extremist problem. You can argue until you are blue in the face that humans should not react to a nuisance and threat as humans always do. The reality is the animal in us will eventually out and the only way to stop it is to stop the nuisance and threat.

[janie48 98]

 

2. The leaders of Islamic terrorist groups. These are a different crop entirely. They talk like emphatic believers but what they really want is earthly power and respect. They don't care who has to die so that they can have it. Mostly they don't even believe in the creed that they send others into battle for.

These people are completely self-serving and the closest thing to pure evil you're ever likely to find. They do have a weakness though, which is that unlike the ground troops, they desperately want to live.

 

That being the case, the terrorist groups can be substantially weakened and de-motivated by assassinating the leadership. The US has gone in for a lot of this over the last 14 years, mostly with drone strikes and Al Qaeda has been greatly weakened by it.

In order for this to work, you have to identify and locate the leadership using modern and traditional intelligence methods. That's the difficult bit.

My thoughts entirely, but I could never have expressed them with the same eloquence.

[Harrystottle 10]

Have we learned anything from this on what a liberal, open immigration policy can lead to?

 

I would say immigration is primarily driven (and always has been primarily driven) by big business. If mass immigration cost big business money instead of making them money it would never have happened.

 

Certainly immigration into this country never happened because our politicians and captains of industry are the noblest men in the world, only wishing to extend the hand of friendship and welcome to the less fortunate. I've never found that a convincing scenario.

 

That apart yes, politicians have now learned that mass immigration has imported people into western countries who are quite happy to kill westerners. They won't admit to it, or calmly and rationally discuss it in any detail.

 

And that's where we are.

Edited June 27, 2015 by Harrystottle

[cassity 10]

It's not just a case of some people being violent. There are some people who are so driven, and believe totally in what they are doing that they are prepared to die doing it. This isn't like the bravery of a member of the armed forces who knows that they might be killed and is prepared to accept the risk for the greater good. These are people who know, 100%, that they will be killed doing what they are going to do.

 

We joke about the X No of virgins waiting for them. Whether they literally believe that I don't know. But it is clear that they are driven in a way that very few people with a (for want of a better term) western upbringing would ever be. People such as the 7/7 bombers were brought up in the UK, yet were prepared to do something that would be anathema to most people.

 

I don't think we are anywhere close to understanding the mindset of these people. Yet until we do, I don't think we've got much hope of changing hearts and minds.

 

Understanding takes a semblance of intelligence.."rag heads, camel jockey, Gook" is probably intellect at its best. So spot on with the "I don't think we are anyway close". On the other hand they do seem to have our £$£$£$£$£$ number...which for me is far more worrying.

 

The urge to move to greener, warmer pastures must have been very overwhelming

 

Especially when all the slaughtering and murder was done for you in advance...or to get involved in another (sham) war only to get butt kicked by the 'Gooks'. (ironic smiley)

[Halibut 12]

I would say immigration is primarily driven (and always has been primarily driven) by big business. If mass immigration cost big business money instead of making them money it would never have happened.

 

Certainly immigration into this country never happened because our politicians and captains of industry are the noblest men in the world, only wishing to extend the hand of friendship and welcome to the less fortunate. I've never found that a convincing scenario.

 

That apart yes, politicians have now learned that mass immigration has imported people into western countries who are quite happy to kill westerners. They won't admit to it, or calmly and rationally discuss it in any detail.

 

And that's where we are.

 

I think you're profoundly wrong.

[cassity 10]

I think you're profoundly wrong.

 

I think you have to look at the wider picture. Big business has it's hand in and drives everything.