George Osbourne Planning Tax credit cuts: Fair?

[unbeliever 10]

t

 

It's just so damn complicated.

Wouldnt it be much simpler to have a living wage and child care provision and remove WTC / CTC entirely.

 

 

The state can't will an increase in productivity for low skilled work.

We have to train our workforce better, then productivity will increase and an increase in wages will follow naturally.

 

There are other ways to simplify the system.

I'm not advocating this, but the state could just give everybody an allowance just big enough to live on regardless of whether they're working. You get your £10k and that's it.

Somebody working for £15k/year would pay about £5k in direct tax and be living on £20k. Anybody working for about £50k/year would pay maybe £16k in direct tax and be living on £44k. If you're earning £1million, you'd hardly notice the allowance, and you'd pay about £350k in direct taxes. Nobody starves, work is rewarded, no need for sanctioning, housing benefit, tax credits and all that malarky. Nice and simple.

Edited October 28, 2015 by unbeliever

[TJC1 10]

The state can't will an increase in productivity for low skilled work.

We have to train our workforce better, then productivity will increase and an increase in wages will follow naturally.

 

There are other ways to simplify the system.

I'm not advocating this, but the state could just give everybody an allowance just big enough to live on regardless of whether they're working. You get your £10k and that's it.

Somebody working for £15k/year would pay about £5k in direct tax and be living on £20k. Anybody working for about £50k/year would pay maybe £16k in direct tax and be living on £44k. If you're earning £1million, you'd hardly notice the allowance, and you'd pay about £350k in direct taxes. Nobody starves, work is rewarded, no need for sanctioning, housing benefit, tax credits and all that malarky. Nice and simple.

 

Theres a couple of flaws in your argument. Number 1, you need entry level positions. Not everybody across the entire workforce can train up and move up at the same time.

 

Maybe youve not noticed this because you work in the public sector where productivity is anathema but its been moving in exactly the opposite direction you describe in the last 15 years, workers are expected more of and asked to do more with a greater range of skills for less money.

 

Although it makes perfect business sense to hire staff on higher wages or increase to living wage.

Increased wages leads to greater self esteem and ownership of position.

 

Companies like Aldi, have realised the benefits and increases wages faster and higher than expected. All MNE should follow suit.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 14:36 ----------

 

The other thing is technology. This doesnt make the workers life easier. It simply means more work and greater expectation from employers, in many cases.

 

Technology is only added value in specific jobs or when youre the boss, like I am!

[unbeliever 10]

Theres a couple of flaws in your argument. Number 1, you need entry level positions. Not everybody across the entire workforce can train up and move up at the same time.

 

I don't believe this. People in the UK spend 13 years in school. There's no need for them to enter the workforce without skills.

 

Although it makes perfect business sense to hire staff on higher wages or increase to living wage.

Increased wages leads to greater self esteem and ownership of position.

 

Companies like Aldi, have realised the benefits and increases wages faster and higher than expected. All MNE should follow suit.

 

 

Aldi require much higher productivity from their employees. Have you seen the speed they check out at?

[TJC1 10]

I don't believe this. People in the UK spend 13 years in school. There's no need for them to enter the workforce without skills.

 

 

 

Aldi require much higher productivity from their employees. Have you seen the speed they check out at?

 

Ive not stood there and timed it no.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 14:56 ----------

 

I don't believe this. People in the UK spend 13 years in school. There's no need for them to enter the workforce without skills.

 

If Aldi need a ratio of 10 shop floor workers to every 1 manager, why would that ratio change with more education or training?

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 15:00 ----------

 

I dont think aldi checkout staff need more education or training. They just require ownership of their position and better payment.

 

Pushing items through a scanner isnt a skilled task.

[unbeliever 10]

 

If Aldi need a ratio of 10 shop floor workers to every 1 manager, why would that ratio change with more education or training?

 

If the workforce were more highly trained, Aldi would struggle to recruit in the UK, because everybody would be in skilled work. So would asda, tesco etc. This would force wages up across the board.

 

I know you'll be inclined to argue with yet another supply and demand argument, but why do you suppose that average wages in the west are higher than in the developing world except for as a result of training and education?

[TJC1 10]

If the workforce were more highly trained, Aldi would struggle to recruit in the UK, because everybody would be in skilled work. So would asda, tesco etc. This would force wages up across the board.

 

I know you'll be inclined to argue with yet another supply and demand argument, but why do you suppose that average wages in the west are higher than in the developing world except for as a result of training and education?

 

Why is the american federal MW 5 and a quarter dollars? Same reason as UK. State subsidy.

[unbeliever 10]

Why is the american federal MW 5 and a quarter dollars? Same reason as UK. State subsidy.

 

They set it low enough so it hardly makes a difference.

Ours is twice the rate, and they're a richer country.

[TJC1 10]

If the workforce were more highly trained, Aldi would struggle to recruit in the UK, because everybody would be in skilled work. So would asda, tesco etc. This would force wages up across the board.

 

 

Im not against training and education. But theres a ceiling on entry level positions. So what they all should do is rise to living wage regardless.

 

Same with shop workers, same with road sweepers, same with call centre workers.

[unbeliever 10]

Im not against training and education. But theres a ceiling on entry level positions. So what they all should do is rise to living wage regardless.

 

Same with shop workers, same with road sweepers, same with call centre workers.

 

You can't just wake up one day and demand that masses of people are paid more than they earn. What you can do is help them to earn more and then expect them to be paid more.

 

Do you imagine an employer is going to pay somebody £10 to produce something with a value of £8 ?

 

Well educated people routinely walk out of college/university etc into an entry level position that pays well above minimum wage or even "Living wage". There's no need for entry level positions to be as low skilled as they are.

[TJC1 10]

You can't just wake up one day and demand that masses of people are paid more than they earn.

 

thats exactly whats happening. What you think the gov living wage is???

 

It will still never be more than output.

[unbeliever 10]

thats exactly whats happening. What you think the gov living wage is???

 

It will still never be more than output.

 

Anybody who is not producing enough for their employer to make it worthwhile keeping them on at the higher minimum wage will find themselves looking for a new job.

 

A high minimum wage just makes it illegal to employ somebody who does not have the wherewithal to earn that much.

Said person is therefore destined to be unemployed.

[TJC1 10]

And whats the other consequence...prices go up.

 

---------- Post added 28-10-2015 at 15:19 ----------

 

Anybody who is not producing enough for their employer to make it worthwhile keeping them on at the higher minimum wage will find themselves looking for a new job.

 

A high minimum wage just makes it illegal to employ somebody who does not have the wherewithal to earn that much.

Said person is therefore destined to be unemployed.

 

Prices go up...it doesnt automatically follow people lose their jobs. Although it might work out that way for some.