EU Referendum - How will you vote?

[Womerry2 10]

I vote to stay in the EU. Whatever may be wrong with it, I believe that it is fulfilling its purpose to prevent war between its member states.

[I1L2T3 10]

So the Spanish would turf out all these wealthy Brits because??? Spite? Need the houses?

 

Spite - yes. Removal of reciprocal residence, work and healthcare arrangements for Spanish citizens in the UK - yes. Opportunity to gain assets at a low price - yes. Whole load of reasons.

[tinfoilhat 11]

Spite - yes. Removal of reciprocal residence, work and healthcare arrangements for Spanish citizens in the UK - yes. Opportunity to gain assets at a low price - yes. Whole load of reasons.

 

Sounds unlikely. Are they turfing out loads of other non- EU residents as well or is it just the Brits loaded onto trains?

[unbeliever 10]

What on earth is everybody talking about?

 

Of course we can enter into a free trade agreement (EFTA) with the EU. We operate a trade deficit with the EU, so they'd have to be mad to inhibit trade with the UK. There are already countries doing this and they do fine.

If the only argument for staying in the EU is trade then it's b@#&%ks.

 

Likewise the immigration arguments.

Of course there would still be immigration to/from the EU if we left. There was such immigration before we joined and there is plenty of immigration from outside the EU.

The only difference would be that anyone wanting to emigrate to the UK from the EU, would have to ask, and we could apply rules to keep out the feckless. The useful immigrants would still come, the page hall crowd would be excluded.

 

How do these discussions always boil down to "Immigration Good" vs "Immigration Bad". And "International agreements good" vs "International agreements bad". It's no-where near that simple.

 

It is a fact (Nice treaty: "ever closer union") that the EU is gradually transitioning from a collection of states into a single state. The EU powers make no secret of this. They think it's a good thing.

 

If you want to eventually transfer all political authority to Brussels, vote for in. We'll be citizens of the country of Europe before you know it.

If you want anything else vote for out. This is almost certainly your last chance.

 

It's not about immigration, or trade. It's about self determination, democracy and sovereignty. If you vote for in, stop voting in general elections as it's pointless. You only need to turn up for the European parliament elections. Even then it probably doesn't matter as the European civil service is so powerful that the MEPs are essentially irrelevant.

 

 

Also. It's NATO that has kept the peace in Europe since 1945. Free trade (EFTA) certainly helps. The EU has nothing to do with it as it is a political integration project and not a free trade agreement.

Edited June 11, 2015 by unbeliever
Forgot about the daft "keeping the peace" argument.

[chalga 10]

What on earth is everybody talking about?

 

Of course we can enter into a free trade agreement (EFTA) with the EU. We operate a trade deficit with the EU, so they'd have to be mad to inhibit trade with the UK. There are already countries doing this and they do fine.

If the only argument for staying in the EU is trade then it's b@#&%ks.

 

Likewise the immigration arguments.

Of course there would still be immigration to/from the EU if we left. There was such immigration before we joined and there is plenty of immigration from outside the EU.

The only difference would be that anyone wanting to emigrate to the UK from the EU, would have to ask, and we could apply rules to keep out the feckless. The useful immigrants would still come, the page hall crowd would be excluded.

 

How do these discussions always boil down to "Immigration Good" vs "Immigration Bad". And "International agreements good" vs "International agreements bad". It's no-where near that simple.

 

It is a fact (Nice treaty: "ever closer union") that the EU is gradually transitioning from a collection of states into a single state. The EU powers make no secret of this. They think it's a good thing.

 

If you want to eventually transfer all political authority to Brussels, vote for in. We'll be citizens of the country of Europe before you know it.

If you want anything else vote for out. This is almost certainly your last chance.

 

It's not about immigration, or trade. It's about self determination, democracy and sovereignty. If you vote for in, stop voting in general elections as it's pointless. You only need to turn up for the European parliament elections. Even then it probably doesn't matter as the European civil service is so powerful that the MEPs are essentially irrelevant.

 

 

Also. It's NATO that has kept the peace in Europe since 1945. Free trade (EFTA) certainly helps. The EU has nothing to do with it as it is a political integration project and not a free trade agreement.

 

So basically,leave the EU to continue doing what you were doing while you were in the EU,but have more administration and red tape,plus less of a voice while doing it,and whittle away your EU contribution that you got back putting these things into operation.

Plus:For some people,it's all about immigration.

[loraward 10]

Yeah, dead easy. Let's put the farmers out of business by making them pay high wages and making them build whole new villages for workers.

 

This kind of 'fix' would have to be played out in countless sectors of the economy to re-align us with being out of the EU.

 

People will still need feeding so how will they be put out of business?

[I1L2T3 10]

What on earth is everybody talking about?

 

Of course we can enter into a free trade agreement (EFTA) with the EU. We operate a trade deficit with the EU, so they'd have to be mad to inhibit trade with the UK. There are already countries doing this and they do fine.

If the only argument for staying in the EU is trade then it's b@#&%ks.

 

Likewise the immigration arguments.

Of course there would still be immigration to/from the EU if we left. There was such immigration before we joined and there is plenty of immigration from outside the EU.

The only difference would be that anyone wanting to emigrate to the UK from the EU, would have to ask, and we could apply rules to keep out the feckless. The useful immigrants would still come, the page hall crowd would be excluded.

 

How do these discussions always boil down to "Immigration Good" vs "Immigration Bad". And "International agreements good" vs "International agreements bad". It's no-where near that simple.

 

It is a fact (Nice treaty: "ever closer union") that the EU is gradually transitioning from a collection of states into a single state. The EU powers make no secret of this. They think it's a good thing.

 

If you want to eventually transfer all political authority to Brussels, vote for in. We'll be citizens of the country of Europe before you know it.

If you want anything else vote for out. This is almost certainly your last chance.

 

It's not about immigration, or trade. It's about self determination, democracy and sovereignty. If you vote for in, stop voting in general elections as it's pointless. You only need to turn up for the European parliament elections. Even then it probably doesn't matter as the European civil service is so powerful that the MEPs are essentially irrelevant.

 

The EEA/EFTA doesn't cover agriculture or fisheries. Deals for import/export of every foodstuff have to be negotiated separately. The cost of our food will increase.

 

Norway, the role model for our exit it often seems, has the highest food prices and poorest food quality compared to EU countries. Norway has a 344% import duty on beef products which denies Norwegians access to cheap meat and forces them to buy expensive local produce. Their tariff is 277% on cheese, 429% some meats. One kilo of chorizo costs £45 - the same thing is £10.60 in Morrisons

[loraward 10]

 

There are fewer British unemployed - more Brits than ever are working according to the Tories.

 

And even more would be working if immigration was lower.

 

---------- Post added 11-06-2015 at 11:21 ----------

 

I'm not sure that I would want to pay for the 25% unemployment across Spain, Croatia & Greece. If all the EU had to pay the same wages the UK workers would have to take a massive pay cut, probably in the form of massive inflation.

 

Yes it would equal the playing field, population density and living costs across Europe.

[I1L2T3 10]

People will still need feeding so how will they be put out of business?

 

Because they will have to invest to change production to non-export markets, invest in new facilities for workers, pay higher wages and not receive any subsidies from the EU.

 

Who is going to pay for production to switch over? The costs will be in the billions. The farmers? Tax payers? Consumers? Who pays?

 

You are also looking at fundamental changes to the diet of the county that will probably not be accepted.

[unbeliever 10]

So basically,leave the EU to continue doing what you were doing while you were in the EU,but have more administration and red tape,plus less of a voice while doing it,and whittle away your EU contribution that you got back putting these things into operation.

Plus:For some people,it's all about immigration.

 

What voice?

How is removing an overly bureaucratic top layer of government (the EU) creating more red tape?

 

The whole point is that we wouldn't have to do exactly the same things as the EU if we're not part of it. We don't have to have macro-economic policy set to favour Germany and France. We don't have to have daft expensive energy that does nothing for CO2 levels. We don't have to have endless burdensome regulations that just destroy productivity. The list goes on.

 

Our government would be back to making the decisions.

For all it's imperfections, at least we have some tangible influence over it.

 

Leaving doesn't cost money, it saves it by the bucket load. It's not a matter of how much we pay in or get out in taxes and public spending; these things are rounding errors. It's about productivity.

[loraward 10]

Because they will have to invest to change production to non-export markets, invest in new facilities for workers, pay higher wages and not receive any subsidies from the EU.

 

Who is going to pay for production to switch over? The costs will be in the billions. The farmers? Tax payers? Consumers? Who pays?

 

You are also looking at fundamental changes to the diet of the county that will probably not be accepted.

 

All of which is a good thing.

[unbeliever 10]

The EEA/EFTA doesn't cover agriculture or fisheries. Deals for import/export of every foodstuff have to be negotiated separately. The cost of our food will increase.

 

Norway, the role model for our exit it often seems, has the highest food prices and poorest food quality compared to EU countries. Norway has a 344% import duty on beef products which denies Norwegians access to cheap meat and forces them to buy expensive local produce. Their tariff is 277% on cheese, 429% some meats. One kilo of chorizo costs £45 - the same thing is £10.60 in Morrisons

 

Getting out of the ridiculous fisheries policies of the EU is a good thing

We don't have to operate protectionist economic policies, just because Norway does. That's not really our style anyway.

We would get to make our own decisions. That's the whole point.

Edited June 11, 2015 by unbeliever